Holocaust Denial Congress Held In Iran

[Señor Malo]

Source: BBC News
BBC NEWS | Middle East | Iran defends Holocaust conference
Iran defends Holocaust conference
Iran's foreign minister has rejected criticism of a two-day conference being held in Iran to examine whether the Holocaust actually happened.
Manouchehr Mottaki told participants the event did not seek to confirm or deny the Holocaust, but rather to allow people to "express their views freely".

Israel's prime minister has condemned the gathering as "a sick phenomenon".

President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has questioned the scale of the Holocaust, in which six million Jews died.

According to the foreign ministry in Tehran, 67 researchers from 30 countries are attending the conference in Iran, which is home to 25,000 Jews.


Its main aim is to create an opportunity for thinkers who cannot express their views freely in Europe about the Holocaust
Manouchehr Mottaki
Iranian foreign minister


Participants include a number of well-known "revisionist" Western academics. American David Duke, a former leader of the Ku Klux Klan, is to present a paper.

But a number of Jewish rabbis are also there. One, British Rabbi Ahron Cohen, said he had come to the conference to put the "Orthodox Jewish viewpoint" across.

"We certainly say there was a Holocaust, we lived through the Holocaust. But in no way can it be used as a justification for perpetrating unjust acts against the Palestinians," he said.

'Express views freely'

Opening the conference, Mr Mottaki said the aim of the conference was "not to deny or confirm the Holocaust".

"Its main aim is to create an opportunity for thinkers who cannot express their views freely in Europe about the Holocaust," he said.


CONFERENCE PARTICIPANTS
Australian Fredrick Toeben , jailed in Germany for incitement and insulting the memory of the dead
Frenchman Robert Faurisson , convicted in France under Holocaust denial laws
Frenchman Georges Thiel , convicted in France under Holocaust denial laws
American David Duke , a former KKK leader and white supremacist

Mr Mottaki dismissed foreign criticism as "predictable", telling delegates there was "no logical reason" to oppose the conference.
In a recorded address broadcast to the nation, President Ahmadinejad questioned why the West would not allow "any investigation" into the Holocaust.

Mr Ahmadinejad has repeatedly downplayed the extent of the Holocaust, describing it as a myth used to justify the existence of Israel and oppression of the Palestinians. He has called for Israel to be dismantled.

But in a number of European countries - including Germany, Austria and France - it is illegal to deny the Holocaust. An Austrian court jailed Briton David Irving for three years on charges of Holocaust denial.

'Negative impression'

Israel's Prime Minister Ehud Olmert condemned the conference as "a sick phenomenon that shows the depths of hatred of the fundamentalist Iranian regime".

Norbert Lammert, president of the German parliament, sent a letter to Mr Ahmadinejad criticising the event.


"I condemn any attempt to offer anti-Semitic propaganda a public forum under the pretext of scientific freedom and objectivity," he wrote.
A number of prominent Holocaust historians are attending a rival gathering taking place in Berlin, backed by the German government, in protest at the Tehran conference.

The US state department last week described the Iranian event as "yet another disgraceful act on this particular subject by the regime in Tehran".

Iran knows this conference is going to cause outrage abroad but it says it wants to test the limits of the West's commitment to freedom of speech, says the BBC's correspondent in Tehran, Frances Harrison.

Iran is drawing a parallel with the Danish cartoons depicting the Prophet Muhammad, which provoked outrage in the Islamic world but were defended by Western liberals, she says.

Iran's one Jewish MP, Morris Motamed, told the BBC he opposed the conference.

"Holding this conference after having a competition of cartoons about the Holocaust has put a lot of pressure on Jews all over the world and it can give nations and governments a very negative impression of Iran," he said.

Story from BBC NEWS:
BBC NEWS | Middle East | Iran defends Holocaust conference

Published: 2006/12/11 18:12:48 GMT

© BBC MMVI

[Strengthandhonour]

Well then, looking at the list of guests it should be one hell of a party

[Menydh]

I don't think for a moment that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is truly interested in the story of Holocaust. He looks pretty astute to me.

If he succeeded into attracting enough attention and in creating a reasonable doubt --even if small and one which still was not enough to deny the holocaust in its total magnitude--, he would be opening another breech in the already low credibility of Israel and its allies.

Another possibility would be to attract to Iran (and to Islam) the sympathies of German and American nazi sympathizers. Not that they are legions but can be noisy. One could keep speculating as to the reasons why this might be to their interest.

[Susano]

Besides Mr Ahmadinejad's intentions, tehre are also a number of other factors. It seems only or mostly known holocaust deniers have been invited, many of who - well, to not violate the board's rule, let's say who are not the least bit sympathetic. That will kind of guarantee the outcome of the conference. Besides, the Holocaust is a well documented event.

However, it is also an Event that has somehow become part of state-sanctioned version of history, and a tool wielded by many, hm, interested factions. If one looks at the 1984-thought-policeish laws regarding Holocaust denial in many European countries, where one can get greater sentences then for acting violently, then I think that the Conference is something good as a counterweight to that! Even if it should have no resonance at all, it would still be at the very least a symbolic counterweight.

And maybe, one day, we can have a more objective historical debatte about that whole topic. That is probably an utopic thought, though.

[Menydh]

I don't think that these are are holocaust deniers:

Some Jewish rabbis are at the conference to put their views across

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by Susano

Besides, the Holocaust is a well documented event.

Not as well documented as you almost admit next:

However, it is also an Event that has somehow become part of state-sanctioned version of history, and a tool wielded by many, hm, interested factions. If one looks at the 1984-thought-policeish laws regarding Holocaust denial in many European countries, where one can get greater sentences then for acting violently, then I think that the Conference is something good as a counterweight to that! Even if it should have no resonance at all, it would still be at the very least a symbolic counterweight.

And maybe, one day, we can have a more objective historical debatte about that whole topic. That is probably an utopic thought, though.

Even if revisionists are wrong, gagging them makes them right. Don't you think?

[Susano]

Okay, let me rephrase that: The existance of the Holocaust is well-documented. The Holocaust itself has not seen much objective debatte, that I have criticiszed, however, its existance is assured.

Of course that does not mean one could not discuss it. As I have said, to think that opinions should be forbidden is 1984ish, and that is why I think the Congress is a good event. As said.

[Kernunnos]

Originally Posted by Susano

Besides Mr Ahmadinejad's intentions, tehre are also a number of other factors. It seems only or mostly known holocaust deniers have been invited, many of who - well, to not violate the board's rule, let's say who are not the least bit sympathetic. That will kind of guarantee the outcome of the conference. Besides, the Holocaust is a well documented event.

However, it is also an Event that has somehow become part of state-sanctioned version of history, and a tool wielded by many, hm, interested factions. If one looks at the 1984-thought-policeish laws regarding Holocaust denial in many European countries, where one can get greater sentences then for acting violently, then I think that the Conference is something good as a counterweight to that! Even if it should have no resonance at all, it would still be at the very least a symbolic counterweight.

And maybe, one day, we can have a more objective historical debatte about that whole topic. That is probably an utopic thought, though.

I agree, while I also share the same doubts on AdmadineXXX that mynnid has.

Not only, mine are deeper about that guy: he is just a cunning moslem tryng to find some western support for his war against israel.

But he is no friend of the european peoples, if he could he would forcibly islamize and invade us without even thinking twice.

The debate about the hebrew so called Holocaust (which would better be caleld genocide, or presumed genocide, since it is not a voluntary act of self immolation) is useless for european antionalists: we risk to become suspicious to public opinions that are already hostile to us thanks to years of communist destructive anti-national propaganda.

The german national socialists of NPD and other nationalists attending that meeting are just picking up a weight that will keep them from walking freely.

[Menydh]

I would say that it is the support [part] of the existance of the Holocaust that is well documented. The existance in itself cannot be well documented until every part has been openly constrasted. And the fact is that, since the denial [part] of the existance of the Holocaust is not being allowed to be documented, one cannot say that the existance is well documented.

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by Breha

The debate about the hebrew so called Holocaust (which would better be caleld genocide, or presumed genocide, since it is not a voluntary act of self immolation) is useless for european antionalists

I couldn't agree more.

[Susano]

But he is no friend of the european peoples, if he could he would forcibly islamize and invade us without even thinking twice.

One should not have illusions about that; yet one also should not overstate the threat of "islamisation" as many on this forum do. In any case, yes, he at least would do so, but so what? He is in no positionto and has bigger worries (Israel, plus the new opportunities Iran has in Iraq and Afghanistan through the amateurish international policy of the USA).

That is Realpolitik - if need be also allying with less friendly characters. He may noot be a friend, but he could be an ally.

[Menydh]

How is the threat of islamisation being overstated? In fact, how is the threat of losing one's spiritual identity to another strange and foreign not a nightmare? Are you suggesting that it is not a horror picture that a people be stripped off of their evolutionary identity?

It is not as much a threat of the possibility of an Islamic military invasion, but of the reality of an Islamic migratory invasion which is already on the way, for which native islamicised or Islamic-sympathising elements are important.

That, too, is Realpolitik.

[Susi]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

I would say that it is the support [part] of the existance of the Holocaust that is well documented. The existance in itself cannot be well documented until every part has been openly constrasted. And the fact is that, since the denial [part] of the existance of the Holocaust is not being allowed to be documented, one cannot say that the existance is well documented.

I believe, in one word, we call this "bias".

In regards to the Holocaust, I usually avoid talking on the subject, but here are some things I have discovered in my researches... The product used (supposedly, I would assume they used a more efficient product, assuming the existance of the Holocaust is documented), Zyklon B is pretty much HCN- (Hydrogen cyanide). This gas burns the skin on touch and it is bad to breathe in even small amounts.. If it is spilled the area must be evacuated immediately, and it takes a day or so to disappate ... it is extremely flammable and even the smallest spark will let it off... Explosion proof lighting was required as well as a closed ventilation system (to secure the lives of the soldiers)... it all seems a little bit costly and elaborate if all they are going to do is murder the prisoners, doesn't it?

(evidence for this here and here)

The chemical seems too risky to use, when there are several safer (for the soldiers, at least...) chemicals to use... if the National Socialists were so efficient and so intelligent, why didn't they use a better chemical?

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by Susi

Zyklon B is pretty much HCN- (Hydrogen cyanide). This gas burns the skin on touch and it is bad to breathe in even small amounts.. If it is spilled the area must be evacuated immediately, and it takes a day or so to disappate

It make take a couple of days to dissipate, but as with many other gases it takes years to fully vanish. I've heard that decades. You should be able to find remains of it in the pipes through the micropores and even in between layers of the metal component.

I suspect that they bored them to death.

if the National Socialists were so efficient and so intelligent, why didn't they use a better chemical?

Let us not go over the top. Had they been intelligent would have they venture into Russia after having a front in the West?