Habemus Papam

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by Nordgau

In Bavarian it's, by the way: "Mir ham an Babba!" or "An Babba hammer!". Though "Babba" is probably not really the most respectful title for the Pontifex that one could imagine.

Is then Babba a familiar/colloquial way of saying Pope?

[Nerthus]

Babba is used for father

[Merlin]

dominum dominum Iosephum ... Sanctae Romanae Ecclesiae Cardinalem ... Ratzinger
... qui vocabitur Benedictum XVI.


So, Joseph Ratzinger has become Pope Benedict XVI.

I will say I'm truly delighted. I shall have to wait and see how his pontificate turns out, but from what I do know, Cardinal Ratzinger is a man I can unfeignedly admire.

He has many virtues. I have been particularly interested in his condemnation of of ... multiculturalism.


Vivat, vivat Benedictus!
Vivat Romanus Benedictus!
Vivat! Vivat! Vivat!

[Gil]

Damn ze Tschermans!
Well, I hope he does at least one thing equal to John Paul II: learns almost all european languages.

[Milesian]

Interesting watching the debate raging on television over the election of the new Pope.

A Scottish priest who studied under Ratzinger vs some cheeky bitch who is the Editor of the "Catholic Herald".

Basicaly it started with Ms Know-It-All telling the world that Ratzinger was the "most fearsome man in the Vatican" and has silenced any dissent and questioning. The priest then laughed in disbelief and said he never saw that with the Pope at all (who was one of the key Progressives during Vatican II)

Eventually after much ranting and raving (and ironically refusing any dissent to her views by managing to talk over everyone else constantly) the real bee in her bonnet came out. Basically she is unhappy because she doesn't think Ratzinger will be pro-Homosexual, Pro-Divorce, Pro-Contraception and Pro-women priests.

The priest tried to tell her that with issues such as Homosexuality, the gospel is quite clear on this as is 2000 years of Catholic teaching. Same with birth control.

She responded that she knows "many priests" ( all un-named) that tell her that no Catholics confess to contraception. In her view not because no-one uses it but because none of them think it is a sin anymore. Obviously she was promoting two logical fallacies here - Argumentum ad Novitatem fallacy and Argumentum ad Numerum fallacy


The priest tried to explain that the duty of the Pope is to be faithful, not to be a liberal.

She then tried to alter her argument to say Ratzinger's problem was that he refused any kind of dialogue. By this time even the presenter was fed up with her and asked her how you could have dialogue when the principles are non-negotiable.

Fortunately, the interview ended before she could get her knickers in anymore of a twist.

Personally, if the new Pope can stamp out people like her (basically Anti-Catholics posing as Catholics in positions of some authority) then he'll be on his way to being a damn fine Pope.

[Perun]

Yes I watched those exact same kind of debates here in the States. In fact I mentioned this over at Turnabout:


http://jkalb.org/node/1162/4839#comment-4839

Well last night on MSNBC there was a discussion on Scarborough country with Pat Buchanan vs. some casually dressed nun. And of course they got heated in debates about church doctrine and Buchanan’s thesis was very simple that the church’s doctrine cannot change when they’ve been consistently upheld over the centuries and entered the tradition of the church. Sadly the discussion was being interrupted by commercial breaks so not much was accomplished. But I did notice that the nun was getting a little desperate at times. Her only argument was about segregated seminaries and how those were done away with as proof that church doctrine can change(indeed I love how Liberals use these types of examples to prove their case, which very rarely if ever involve actual doctrine and dogma).

She pointed out that Jesus sent a woman out to heal a community as proof that women can be priests, Buchanan replied that women can be saints, doctors of the church, mystics, etc. but they can’t be priests. Buchanan wasnt able to mention that the priest is supposed to be a representive of God/Christ who is male. You cant have a female representing God in the mass. But as Buchanan said, women can and have fufilled many roles within the church; so it’s not like women are being neglected by the church as feminists claim.

By Perun at Tue, 04/05/2005 - 4:00pm

MD gave a good followup comment:

http://jkalb.org/node/1162/4841#comment-4841

I’ve watched a lot of the coverage of the Pope’s death during the past four days. Within 24 hours of his death, the media had lost interest in the Pope and had taken up “issues,” those issues being those in which liberals had an interest. They dug up a host of disaffected nuns and ex-nuns, liberal theologians, etc., to come on to discuss gay marriage, celibacy, women in the church, and so forth, the anchor feeding the guest soft balls to hit out of the park. Interestingly, they usually avoided abortion like the plague, but they never failed to mention the Pope’s opposition to the death penalty. Michael Novak and Buchanan are the only orthodox Catholics that I’ve seen on screen. Neuhaus lives in New York, and apparently no one has called him to appear. Fox did send Amy Kellogg to Krakow and she did some good background reporting on the Pope’s youth and his early career as a priest and as bishop of Krakow. I’ve heard news readers say repeatedly: “These people disagreed with the Pope on a host of issues, but they admired him as a man, and are now showing their affection and admiration in the hour of his death.” Whaaaaaa. Evidently, people are now compartmentalized, and separated into pieces, and those pieces we don’t like are repressed or ignored, and no connection is made between the goodness of a man and the quality of his beliefs and convictions, as if beliefs and convictions were ephemeral concoctions with no relation to character.

I apologize, but watching the babble on TV does this to me.

[Nordgau]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

Is then Babba a familiar/colloquial way of saying Pope?

Not really. As BM said, it is colloquial Bavarian dialect for father, and generally colloquial German knows, exactly alike the Latin designation from which the pope title emerged, the word Papa for father - Heiliger Vater ("Holy Father") with the proper non-colloquial father word is the only way with which you can call the pope "father" in German--Heiliger Papa or Heiliger Babba would sound a bit unusual.

[Nordgau]

Originally Posted by Manji

Damn ze Tschermans!

Would you people be happier with a Negro Pope?

Well, I hope he does at least one thing equal to John Paul II: learns almost all european languages.

Ratzinger speaks already ten languages, I catched in the media.

[Nerthus]

Damn ze Tschermans!

You're just jealous

[etoile noir]

the replies posted by Milesian and Perun have just highlighted, at least to me, just what sort of pope we have, and what society we live in. A media pope, catering to the whims of the media hungry people.

that is what the vatican and the church in general have come down to. this papal election, rather than having the dignity of the previous one and of many other hundreds before it, was almost reduced to some bush/kerry election, or the current Vote 05 taking place in the UK.

24 hour news channels transmitting all the gory details - white smoke! no its black.... they havent decided..... they are praying. he was elected on the 3rd round, no the 4th! then finally, we have a pope .... and people clapping and cheering. and the new pope on the balcony greeting the people. From the side of the Pope, yes, he did deliver a blessing, and mentioned his predecessor. however the people didn't seem to know whether they were fans at a rock festival, party faithful after the election of their leader, or witnesses to the solemn declaration that Habemus Papam.

now of course we have all sorts of self appointed experts telling us everything about Cardinal Ratzinger, from his childhood till today ..... we know that he is going to be a conservative pope [geez that's news .... hello, this is the RC church!], he is going to do this, that and the other ..... all experts.

of course we are all experts today. we live in the age of instant communication, where "information", sometimes from dubious sources, is available at the touch of a button. where if you don't know anything about anything, you "google" it and suddenly you're an expert.

as though the above weren't enough, we also have a plethora of "prophecy experts" who give their interpretations of why Cardinal Ratzinger is Pope, the significance of the Olive, the significance of Benedict ..... these almost make me think that the cardinals were indeed wasting time in choosing the new pope. they could have asked the malachy experts and be done with it all!

i am not even a practicing roman catholic, yet i feel the vatican, the pope and the church in general, should be above this media circus.

[Dr. Solar Wolff]

The American media wasted no time in stating that Ratzinger served involuntarily in the Hitler Youth and the Wehrmacht. They said he deserted the Wehrmacht in 1944 and was taken prisioner by the Americans.

Question: Was it possible to be involuntarily inducted into the Hitler Youth?

[Blood Axis]

Originally Posted by Dr. Solar Wolff

The American media wasted no time in stating that Ratzinger served involuntarily in the Hitler Youth and the Wehrmacht. They said he deserted the Wehrmacht in 1944 and was taken prisioner by the Americans.

Question: Was it possible to be involuntarily inducted into the Hitler Youth?

I am not a Catholic but I am very pleased to hear that the new Pope is a Tscherman.

[Exeter]

More about that in the Guardian (a Liberal newspaper)

"His father was a police officer from a family of farmers whose career suffered because he refused to become a Nazi. The young Ratzinger served briefly and unenthusiastically with the Hitler Youth and later with a German army anti-aircraft unit guarding the BMW factory in Munich. He says he never fired a shot.

Ratzinger has defended himself from criticism of his war record by claiming - not strictly truthfully - that he could not have avoided military service in the circumstances. Others did and maybe he could have used his training in a seminary to dodge the call-up. But there is no doubt that his heart was not in his military service and he deserted in April 1944, ending the war in an American prisoner of war camp."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/pope/story/0,12272,1463902,00.html


Also, more from Blair: "In Britain, the Queen sent good wishes to Rome while Tony Blair looked forward to working with him on aiding Africa and encouraging economic development."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/pope/story/0,12272,1463887,00.html

Originally Posted by Dr. Solar Wolff

The American media wasted no time in stating that Ratzinger served involuntarily in the Hitler Youth and the Wehrmacht. They said he deserted the Wehrmacht in 1944 and was taken prisioner by the Americans.

Question: Was it possible to be involuntarily inducted into the Hitler Youth?

[Gil]

BM & Nordgau: I don't care what nationality the pope is, as long as he is European. Also, i'm not Roman Catholic so my opinion doesn't really count
I was under the impression that the vast majority of germans were protestants, not catholics. Aren't Bavaria and Austria catholic strongholds while the central-north parts of Germany more pro-protestant belief? (i'm asking here, don't go nuts on me!)

[Exeter]

Germany is made up of approx. 25 million Catholics.

Originally Posted by Manji

Aren't Bavaria and Austria catholic strongholds while the central-north parts of Germany more pro-protestant belief? (i'm asking here, don't go nuts on me!)

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by etoile noir

the replies posted by Milesian and Perun have just highlighted, at least to me, just what sort of pope we have, and what society we live in. A media pope, catering to the whims of the media hungry people.

What are you talking about?

Benedictus XVI's election shows a compromise by the Church for regeneration and against whatever the media may have to say.. or have already said about Cardinal Ratzinger already in the past.

Exactly the opposite to what you are saying here.

that is what the vatican and the church in general have come down to. this papal election, rather than having the dignity of the previous one and of many other hundreds before it, was almost reduced to some bush/kerry election, or the current Vote 05 taking place in the UK.

Really? Ratzinger was the unpopular candidate on the media. Haven't you noticed?

24 hour news channels transmitting all the gory details - white smoke! no its black.... they havent decided..... they are praying. he was elected on the 3rd round, no the 4th! then finally, we have a pope ...

Elected on the 4th conclave points to a very short period election. If they had wanted to feed the media they would have done exactly the opposite. And they would have elected a more "colourful" Pope too.

and people clapping and cheering. and the new pope on the balcony greeting the people.

Terrible things to do..

From the side of the Pope, yes, he did deliver a blessing, and mentioned his predecessor. however the people didn't seem to know whether they were fans at a rock festival, party faithful after the election of their leader, or witnesses to the solemn declaration that Habemus Papam.

I won't tell where I would expect to read such words.

now of course we have all sorts of self appointed experts telling us everything about Cardinal Ratzinger, from his childhood till today ..... we know that he is going to be a conservative pope [geez that's news .... hello, this is the RC church!], he is going to do this, that and the other ..... all experts.

ditto.

as though the above weren't enough, we also have a plethora of "prophecy experts" who give their interpretations of why Cardinal Ratzinger is Pope, the significance of the Olive, the significance of Benedict ..... these almost make me think that the cardinals were indeed wasting time in choosing the new pope. they could have asked the malachy experts and be done with it all!

Did you by any chance read what I wrote about the Catholich Church not being predestinationist, from where you can imagine the importance in how Cardinals choose the Pope (assuming that they take the prophecies anything seriously)?