US warns of 'implosion' of Nato alliance in Afghanistan

[Marulus]

US warns of 'implosion' of Nato alliance in Afghanistan



Robert Gates: Alliance is not sharing the burden of war (Johannes Simon/Getty Images)

By Mary Dejevsky in Munich

Monday, 11 February 2008

The US Defence Secretary, Robert Gates, appealed directly to Europeans yesterday to support the war in Afghanistan, warning that violence and terrorism would increase if Nato was defeated there.

Mr Gates said that the transatlantic alliance was under such stress over operations in Afghanistan that it risked imploding. Speaking in Munich to an audience that included presidents, foreign and defence ministers of many EU countries, Mr Gates acknowledged serious shortcomings in Nato operations in Afghanistan.

This was because the alliance was not working properly together to share the burden, he said.

"I am concerned that many people on this continent may not comprehend the magnitude of the direct threat to European security," he said. "We must not – we cannot – become a two-tiered alliance of those who are willing to fight and those who are not. Such a development, with all its implications for collective security, would in effect destroy the alliance."

Mr Gates's words took to a new, and far more acute, level arguments that have become ever sharper in recent months and culminated at an ill-tempered Nato summit in Lithuania last week. While the disputes at the Vilnius summit remained mostly behind closed doors, however, Mr Gates brought them loudly into the open at Munich.

Mr Gates was careful to name no names, but suggestions that some allies were less willing than others to sustain casualties have become a sensitive matter in Germany, where politicians are fending off calls from the Nato command either to contribute more troops to the international force as a whole, or to divert some of the troops serving under German command in northern Afghanistan to the more hostile terrain in the south.

Both the German Foreign minister, Frank-Walter Steinmeier, and the Defence minister, Franz Josef Jung, who had already addressed the Munich conference, had been at pains to set the record straight from their perspective. They insisted that the total number of German troops had been limited by the Bundestag, and there was little chance of an increase. They insisted, too, that northern Afghanistan was a dangerous place and Germany has taken casualties. They also argued that if, as Nato has proposed, some German troops were redeployed in the south, this would put at risk the continued success of the operation in the north.

German ministers recognise that their unwillingness to redeploy troops or increase the number is seen in some quarters as evidence of something akin to national cowardice.

While it is possible that France will send an additional 1,000 troops to help out in the south, this will not end the argument, which is partly about the whole performance of the alliance in Afghanistan, and partly about broader issues, such as the Nato command structure and commitment of individual members. As other speakers also noted, there was a deep gulf in public support for the operation between the US and many European countries, where it was doubted that success was even possible.

Mr Gates went out of his way to defend the Afghanistan operation as all of a piece with Nato's "core" purpose: "To defend the security interests and values of the transatlantic community". He presented Afghanistan as the epitome, in practice, of the threats that had been discussed by the alliance in theory during the 1990s – with the combination of an unstable state, terrorists linked by new technology; the nexus between drugs, terrorism and organised crime, as well as a "safe haven" that would allow "Islamic extremists to turn a poisonous ideology into a global movement".

[source]

[AnfangerUS]

Marulus what do you think? Yes it may appear as a projection of "American Imperialism" but the Dutch, British, French, and Canadians are also fighting the Islamic Extremism that threatens not only America but the civilization of the West (which clearly includes Europe). Isn't it the duty of Europe to destroy this threat not only in Europe but globally?

[Marulus]

Originally Posted by AnfangerUS

Yes it may appear as a projection of "American Imperialism"

What else?

but the Dutch, British, French, and Canadians are also fighting the Islamic Extremism that threatens not only America but the civilization of the West (which clearly includes Europe).

Yes, few thousand mountaneers from Hindukush threaten the whole "civilization of the West", whatever that means. You can sell that story to somebody else.

Just for the sake of it: we make a distinction here between the Anglospheric notion of the "West" and the genuine European culture.

Originally Posted by AnfangerUS

Isn't it the duty of Europe to destroy this threat not only in Europe but globally?

Nah, the bogeyman called Al-Qaida...every day less people believe in its existance.

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by AnfangerUS

the Islamic Extremism that threatens not only America but the civilization of the West (which clearly includes Europe).

To call that spawn a "civilization" is the worse joke ever.

Isn't it the duty of Europe to destroy this threat not only in Europe but globally?

It is wearing old to pretend that serving the U.S. of America's blood for oil wars is to destroy any global threat.

And if it was really about destroying global threats, why not starting with the U.S. of America?

[AnfangerUS]

Excuse me "spawn"? More ethnically "European" than you my friend. [ edit: argumentum ad gentem ] "Blood Wars for oil" umm last time I checked no oil in Afghanistan. I live in Europe as well and don't see the "Great Satan" as dangerous as the crowds of Middle Eastern men hanging out on the streets and the train stations. The same men eyeing your sisters and mothers. But go ahead keep your sights on America when the real threat is going on right underneath your nose. Why don't you wash up and go to the mosque for prayer right now while your at it.
Marulus- you're right to an extent yes they're fighting in Hindukush but it is just one front. Don't think for once there wouldn't be more mujadeen in Bihac, Chechnya, and God knows where if they weren't going to Afghanistan to fight the "Infidel". Watch the Wilders video and tell me that somehow your cultural/ ethnic cousins in the New World are a bigger threat. Maybe instead of believing what you see and hear in an internationalist media you should go to the source. There is a somewhat large Croatian community in the U.S. that love and have supported Croatia financially and emotionally over the decades. We are your natural ally not enemy. I find both Stepinac and Strossmayer heroes of mine but you think I am a bafoon?

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by AnfangerUS

Excuse me "spawn"? More ethnically "European" than you my friend.

"Ethnically European".. Only an American could misunderstand both terms and still put them together.

[ edit: argumentum ad gentem ]

You are so predictable. Just 3 hours ago you were whining about you being marginalized for the simple fact of being American. You have broken the rules:

Felonies

4. Ad gentem arguments, racial slurs and the display and spread of agendas of hostility between the nations of Europe, are not permitted.

"Blood Wars for oil" umm last time I checked no oil in Afghanistan.

You mean "the last time that you did not check"? It takes only a simple search for "afghanistan" AND "oil" on any search engine to come out with: afghanistan oil - Google Search

For example: The Oil Connection: Afghanistan and Caspian Sea oil pipeline routes

I live in Europe as well and don't see the "Great Satan" as dangerous as the crowds of Middle Eastern men hanging out on the streets and the train stations.

Why should we have to choose between two evils? And even if we did, say for temporary convenience, why should we do it willingly?

The same men eyeing your sisters and mothers.

Are you a student of marketing per chance? You'll have to refine your techniques if you want to achieve.

But go ahead keep your sights on America when the real threat is going on right underneath your nose. Why don't you wash up and go to the mosque for prayer right now while your at it.

Now not being pro-American qualifies people as Muslims? Talk about Islamic fundamentalism! It pales at the face of American fundamentalism!

tell me that somehow your cultural/ ethnic cousins in the New World are a bigger threat.

For a start, I consider a threat to my dignity that anyone will call an ignorant my "cultural/ethnic cousin". I take both concepts very seriously.

Maybe instead of believing what you see and hear in an internationalist media you should go to the source.

And that "source" is you, right?

There is a somewhat large Croatian community in the U.S. that love and have supported Croatia financially and emotionally over the decades. We are your natural ally not enemy. I find both Stepinac and Strossmayer heroes of mine

And here comes the emotional trading.

but you think I am a bafoon?

Does this call for an answer?

[Kernunnos]

Originally Posted by AnfangerUS

Marulus what do you think? Yes it may appear as a projection of "American Imperialism" but the Dutch, British, French, and Canadians are also fighting the Islamic Extremism that threatens not only America but the civilization of the West (which clearly includes Europe). Isn\'t it the duty of Europe to destroy this threat not only in Europe but globally?

What is called the West hes no more sense after the fall of the Berlin Wall. Russia is much more a model state for us than the multicultural, multiracial rootless US is. We would be very happy to see a real Europe made of allied european nations fight with seriousness the aggressiveness of Islam. But what we call the West is no more european, it is just a projection of the economic needs of multinationals: rootless, irrespective of ethnicities, denying ethnicities a right to their ancestral lands. In effect it is wrong to use the word american, since the true american people is being bastardized more and more, as its traditional core, the anglo-german-celtic civilization, is dying. What we do not accept is the idea that what was once Europe is not just a platform to support the economics of the multinationals and the finance moghuls who are the real power behind the fictitious so called Western governments.

[Marulus]

Originally Posted by AnfangerUS

you're right to an extent yes they're fighting in Hindukush but it is just one front. Don't think for once there wouldn't be more mujadeen in Bihac, Chechnya, and God knows where if they weren't going to Afghanistan to fight the "Infidel".

It is a typical shallow view of an average boob-tube watching "Westerner" who blindly believes any brain-washing stuff offered to him on a plate by the international media. An all-powerful international organization, Al Qaida, having its sleeper cells everywhere, coordinating the Taliban, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iraqi resistance etc etc. all of this is led by some Osama Ben Laden, who lives in a cave and about whom nobody really knows whether or not he is alive. Give me a break...

When you mentioned Bihać, well, it was Americans who brought mujahedeen to Bosnia in the first place.

The Taliban are just a local Pashtun ethnic militia in Afghanistan fighting against the NATO occupiers.

Originally Posted by AnfangerUS

Maybe instead of believing what you see and hear in an internationalist media you should go to the source.

It appears that it is you who are nourishing himself with the diet of platitudes spewed by the internationalist media.

Originally Posted by AnfangerUS

There is a somewhat large Croatian community in the U.S. that love and have supported Croatia financially and emotionally over the decades.

How is this related to the subject?

Originally Posted by AnfangerUS

We are your natural ally not enemy.

Who is "we"?

Originally Posted by AnfangerUS

I find both Stepinac and Strossmayer heroes of mine

Two totally disparate characters, chronologically separated by the period of about one hundred years and having almost nothing in common.

[Errigal]

Originally Posted by AnfangerUS

I live in Europe as well and don't see the "Great Satan" as dangerous as the crowds of Middle Eastern men hanging out on the streets and the train stations. The same men eyeing your sisters and mothers. But go ahead keep your sights on America when the real threat is going on right underneath your nose. Why don't you wash up and go to the mosque for prayer right now while your at it.....

That is a problem of immigration law. NATO could kill every practising Muslim in Afghanistan and threat you describe would still exist; if anything the threat would grow stronger.

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by Errigal

That is a problem of immigration law. NATO could kill every practising Muslim in Afghanistan and threat you describe would still exist; if anything the threat would grow stronger.

You couldn't be more right. You only have to look at a timeline of events in the Middle East and other places where America has interacted with Islam, to realize that it has been a cause for that threat to grow stronger. Stronger in more than one sense. Let us not forget that it was the CIA that armed and trained the Taliban and the Jihadists.

[Kernunnos]

Originally Posted by AnfangerUS

Excuse me "spawn"? More ethnically "European" than you my friend. [ edit: argumentum ad gentem ] "Blood Wars for oil" umm last time I checked no oil in Afghanistan. I live in Europe as well and don't see the "Great Satan" as dangerous as the crowds of Middle Eastern men hanging out on the streets and the train stations. The same men eyeing your sisters and mothers. But go ahead keep your sights on America when the real threat is going on right underneath your nose. Why don't you wash up and go to the mosque for prayer right now while your at it.
Marulus- you're right to an extent yes they're fighting in Hindukush but it is just one front. Don't think for once there wouldn't be more mujadeen in Bihac, Chechnya, and God knows where if they weren't going to Afghanistan to fight the "Infidel". Watch the Wilders video and tell me that somehow your cultural/ ethnic cousins in the New World are a bigger threat. Maybe instead of believing what you see and hear in an internationalist media you should go to the source. There is a somewhat large Croatian community in the U.S. that love and have supported Croatia financially and emotionally over the decades. We are your natural ally not enemy. I find both Stepinac and Strossmayer heroes of mine but you think I am a bafoon?

My dear, i do love your preoccupation for ours mother and sister, I think I would gladly reciprocate and help yours, that's not the core of what moves us to criticize the US system of power, not the people like you that are honest but do not know the true ideological framework of a system they still believe to be an european and christian one.

Actually, since Bill Cinton's time the US have officially become a country without a religion and a specific people at its core: you instead argue as if the US were still the wasp founded and ruled, strongly christian country of the 1920s.

The US is officially a melting pot country, it is actually the country that is strongly on the road to embody forever the freemasonic dream of a race-less, religion-less crucible forged mestizo people kept together by abstract ideals concocted in obscure freemasonic gatherings.

The main reason for the flocking of middle eastern and african aliens is in the fact that Europe has gone the way of the US, opening its border on the recent US example to anybody in the world, including millions of undocumented mexicans.

Our invaders openly say they have a right to be here since they maintain that Europe is like America: they expect citizenship as a right, again quoting US example.

It is pointless to chase observant moslem on the mountains of Afghanistan if regiments of other ones are admitted freely on our soil on the ground of increasing our labor force an propping up stocks, in both cases with the prospective of being obliterated forever as europeans by a new barbaric invasion.

A barbaric invasion decided by the financial cabal that has its temples in Wall Street, London, Paris and Jerusalem.

You think you are defending the americans of european ancestry while fighting the talibans and the sunni insurgents at high cost in their countries, when yours and ours are invaded pacifically with the consent of our politicians.

It is against our respective power systems that we should be fighting, not under a worn out NATO banner that has no more enemies to fight after the fall of the Berlin wall.