The British National Party

[billycotton]

I think this party is the only hope left for the indigenous population of the UK,and its good to see them making steady progress on the electoral front.
The leader Nick Griffin seems to have changed their image so to make them more electable to the voters and he ought to be congratulated on his achievement.

www.bnp.org.uk

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by billycotton

The leader Nick Griffin seems to have changed their image so to make them more electable to the voters and he ought to be congratulated on his achievement.

Will "Shalom" do it for a congratulation?

See BNP advisor supportive of Zionism

[Fenris]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

Will "Shalom" do it for a congratulation?

See BNP advisor supportive of Zionism

Right. One "advisor" supports Israel, therefore the whole outfit is to be scorned.

[Menydh]

Why are you trying to play it down?

A quote from the text, in the official site of the BNP:

"Those nationalists that attack Israel no longer understand that nations such as Israel are the only true nationalists left on the planet. They place the interests of the people at the heart of their politics. That is the true nature of nationalism."

Give it up. The BNP is not nationalist. Britain a nation? how are Irishmen part of a same nation as the English? And they still have the stomach to tell others what nationalism is? That's rich.

The BNP is plain and simple racist. And it is no wonder that an Americian "white nationalist" comes to defend it because there is nothing of nationalism in "white nationalism" despite its name, but simply and plainly racism.

Racism as in hatred. Not as in ethnic preservationism (i.e. nationalism).


P.S. I assume that you haven't bothered with reading the forum statement of intentions. Let me quote some parts for you:

We are alien to concepts like Pan-Europeanism, Aryanism, White Nationalism, or any other such constructs which may imply a loss of our individual national identities in favour of an homogeneous pro-European pseudo-identity or, worse, of an amorphous Internationalism based on pseudo-racial delusions. We are simply Europeans and Nationalists, regardless of distinctions in political ideologies and religions.

Stirpes is a forum for the discussion of matters that concern European Nationalists. European, in this context, is anyone whose roots and origins belong to any of the nations of Europe, and whose nationality and allegiance belongs fully to any of the Nations of Europe. Interference from ideologies, attitudes, and political, racial or social constructs foreign to Europe -- even when these may arise from people of European descent -- shall be dealt accordingly to the rules.

Some Issues of Concern

Colonials:
This is not a forum to provide a touristic view of Europe. It is neither a forum for claiming such or such European origins. The views of the peoples from the Colonies about Europe, especially those living in the US of A and Canada, are, a priori, distorted and of no interest to the preservation of Europe. Furthermore, the issues that concern North America are strange and not exportable to Europe; consequently, a nuisance and a waste of resources to Stirpes, thus strongly discouraged.

Whilst we count with a reduced number of Colonial residents on Stirpes, who we consider friends and kin to us, we do not welcome the massive assembly of Colonials.

Please, if you belong to the category of Colonials and want to visit us, respect our space of political discussion and keep a profile as low as possible.

I can't insist enough on the part highlighted in red. The Politics area is a highbrow forum. Hardly an area to keep a low profile.

If you absolutely need to raise a complaint about anything of the above, please do so in the appropriate forum area which for you it is Camera Obscura

[Pirate]

@Mynydd - I'm not in any way pro-Israel, but I don't see why statements such as the one you cited could make someone anti-nationalist.

However I do agree that BNP is hardly a real nationalist party.

[Milesian]

Originally Posted by Franjo Malgaj

However I do agree that BNP is hardly a real nationalist party.

Of course, Britain is not a nation so a British party cannot be a nationalist one.
Britain is a so-called "union" of nations (England, Scotland, Wales and an occupied part of Ireland). This is why pro-British parties are unionist parties, not nationalist. That the BNP calls itself something doesn't take away from the fact that it blatantly isn't.

A British nationalist makes as much sense as a European nationalist, a western hemisphere nationalist, or God forbid..........a White nationalist:o

[Errigal]

Originally Posted by Milesian

A British nationalist makes as much sense as a European nationalist, a western hemisphere nationalist, or God forbid..........a White nationalist:o

I really can't agree with that. The British Isles (or whatever you want to call them) are clearly a nation by the standard set by Germany, Italy, France and Spain. I can understand those who say their nation is Catalonia not Spain, or Languedoc not France, but I can't understand someone who pretends they have no more in common with a neighbouring nation than they do with one hundreds of miles away. The British Isles are a cultural area like Scandinavia. To say this does not mean that Denmark, Sweden and Norway must share one government, it simply recognizes a cultural reality. I am a citizen of the Irish Republic but I do not see Britain to be as foreign to me as Romania.

The word "nation" is like the word "family"; the definition can never be precise and depends on how closely one draws the circle around those close to you.

[Breogan]

Originally Posted by A Few Acres of Snow

I can understand those who say their nation is Catalonia not Spain, or Languedoc not France

Catalonia has always been and is part of Spain in spite of separatist delusions.

Originally Posted by A Few Acres of Snow

The word "nation" is like the word "family"; the definition can never be precise and depends on how closely one draws the circle around those close to you.

I think it's not just a subjetive matter: history, culture, religion, race and so on also count here.

[Errigal]

Originally Posted by Breogan

Catalonia has always been and is part of Spain in spite of separatist delusions.

I was meaning that I understand Catalan nationalism, not that I agree or disagree with that view. My experience with the British Isles would make me sympathetic the "Las Españas" view rather than than to Catalonia with a seat at the UN.

Originally Posted by Breogan

I think it's not just a subjetive matter: history, culture, religion, race and so on also count here.

In the same way that someone can tell his cousin "I don't think of you as family" it is subjective.

[Menydh]

Hardly a nation when you hear them speaking in terms of "British Indian", "British Afro-Caribbean", "British English", "British Chinese", ... as much of a nation as the United "Nations".

Originally Posted by Milesian

A British nationalist makes as much sense as a European nationalist, a western hemisphere nationalist, or God forbid..........a White nationalist:o

The BNP is in fact a white nationalist party. It is little wonder given the actual state of things in Britain and the fact that white nationalism is in fact a derivative of WASP racism in America.

By the way, a new poll puts the numbers of British belonging to an ethnic minority other than white in 4.6 million (or 8% of the total population).

I have found a couple of articles at the BBC site which are interesting to this discussion..

[Menydh]

What is Britishness?

BBC News
October 11, 2000

The government is being asked to rethink what it means to be British by a new report examining the nation's ethnic mix. But everyone has their own definition.

The Commission on the Future of Multi-Ethnic Britain wants a formal declaration that the UK is a multi-cultural society.

The chairman, Lord Bhiku Parekh, says such a declaration would be "a statement of who we are", a way of saying to ethnic minorities and the world that the UK cherishes its diversity.

But what is it to be British? It is many things to many people.

John Adams, of the Campaign for English Regions, says ethnicity should not come into equation.

"Someone who is British is someone who lives and works in Britain. You have to be inclusive - if someone wants to commit to Britain then we should welcome them."

Daley Thompson, the Olympic decathlon gold medallist born of a Scottish mother and Nigerian father, wrote in the Sun about what it is to be British.

"It's a national identity which embraces the Scots, the Irish and the Welsh as well as anyone else who has come to Britain in the hope of giving their children a better life.

"I know athletes on the podiums whose ancestors came to Britain for other countries felt just as proud as anyone who could trace their ancestry back to 1066."

Yet Gillian Glover, of the Scotsman newspaper, has said that the stiff upper-lipped stereotype has made her generation embarrassed to be British.

"I suspect this is one of the things which has made being Scottish suddenly such a glamorous and compelling alternative."

Roger Scruton, the author of England: An Elegy, has said that the only group of Her Majesty's subjects who describe themselves as British are those who emigrated to the UK from the former colonies.

They have done this, he said, as a means of having "no real nationality at all, certainly no nationality that would conflict with ethnic or religious loyalties forged far away and years before.

"There are black or Bangladeshi Britons, but not black or Bangladeshi English."

Unlike the Scots, the Irish and the Welsh, the English appear almost reluctant to identify themselves as such.

Yet definitions of the national character are typically less than flattering. In his 1941 essay England, Your England, George Orwell described the national character thus:

"The English are inveterate gamblers, drink as much beer as their wages will permit, are devoted to bawdy jokes, and use probably the foulest language in the world."

Cool Britannia

Conservative Party leader William Hague has said that to be British means being, "ambitious, sporty, fashion-conscious, multi-ethnic, brassy, self-confident and international."

Earlier this year he spoke of Britain as a place where "hundreds of thousands go to the Notting Hill Carnival and the Eisteddfod, the Britain which watches MTV and Changing Rooms, and which is fascinated by Ricky and Bianca's ups and downs".

A leader in the Daily Telegraph this week says there has never been a homogenous British population.

"Our nationhood has been shaped over centuries by waves of settlers, each bringing his own contribution to British identity.

"But that is the point: it is our common nationality that allows us to define Britishness in civic, rather than racial, terms."

In 1760, when the British Empire was at the height of its powers, King George III declared: "Born and educated in this country, I glory in the name of Briton."

Like many Britons today, George's parents came from the continent, as did his wife.


[source]

[Menydh]

Is Britain a nation?

BBC News
October 19, 2000

The UK should be described a "community of communities", according to a controversial report.

The study by the Commission on the Future of Multi-Ethnic Britain has been criticised for suggesting the word "British" has racial connotations.

The report also says the UK Government should do more to improve race relations and end discrimination.

What does being British mean to you? Do the British recognise their multi-cultural reality? Has the country progressed much with race relations over the last thirty years?

Here's what you had to say.

[read the comments here..]

[Menydh]

Most minorities 'think British'

BBC News
January 8, 2004

Most of Britain's ethnic minorities regard themselves as British, according to new figures released on Thursday.

Research published by the Office for National Statistics showed people of mixed race and Caribbean descent were most likely to identify with the UK.

Fewer than half of black Africans questioned claimed British as their identity.

The research suggests the corresponding figure for Asians was 75%.

And although nearly all of Britain's 4.6 million people of ethnic minority origin live in England, they were far less likely than white people to call themselves English, preferring the term "British".

The data comes from a new 'national identity' question put to around 300,000 people in the UK.



It is included in Focus On Ethnicity and Identity, one of the ONS' new online reports which provide data based on a variety of sources including the Labour Force Survey, the General Household Survey and the 2001 Census.

The roles of men and women also come in for closer examination with the simultaneous release of Focus On Gender.

Publication of the report on race coincides with new guidance from the ONS on a uniform way of gathering data to get a more accurate picture of Britain's ethnic minority groups.

'Poor health'

Len Cook of the ONS said that defining and measuring ethnicity and national identity was a complex task.

"However, it is vitally important that we do measure ethnicity and national identity and that we do so in a way that is sound, sensitive, relevant and useful," Mr Cook said.

UK's ethnic minorities



1. Asian: 50%
2. Black: 25%
3. Mixed: 15%
4. Chinese: 5%
5. Other: 5%

The Focus on Ethnicity and Identity report concentrates on highlighting the main similarities and differences between Britain's ethnic minority groups.

"The different groups share some characteristics, but there are often greater differences between the individual ethnic groups than between the minority ethnic population as a whole and White British people," the report states.

Among newly-published data is information on health gathered in the 2001 census broken down by ethnic group for the first time.

The figures, which were adjusted to allow comparison between populations with different age structures, showed that nearly all ethnic minority groups, including White Irish, were more likely than White British people to consider themselves to be in poor health.

Bangladeshis and Pakistanis were the most likely to consider their state of health to be 'not good' with Bangladeshi men three times as likely to visit their GP as men in general.

Other information included in the online report analyses existing data on ethnic minorities in relation to family life, education, employment and crime.


[source]

[Errigal]

Mynydd you are exactly right that the term "British" is one of the most abused terms in the English language. I wish there was another word - similar to "Scandinavian" - which described the native peoples of the British Isles.

Having said that, I'm glad my part of Ireland is in the Republic and not still part of modern "Britain".