Aryan nations leader calls out to al qaeda

[Marcus Marulus]

Originally Posted by eurofighter

This is so contradictorily to compare these terrorists with us. As far as I'm concerned he shouldn't call himself "Aryan" anylonger, if he wants to ally with islamists. Does he really believe to find real comrades in them?

And although they may fight the Jews aswell, this commonness doesn't make the foe of my foe to my friend for a long time yet.

And what would be an ideal Aryan in your opinion?

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by eurofighter

This is so contradictorily to compare these terrorists with us. As far as I'm concerned he shouldn't call himself "Aryan" anylonger, if he wants to ally with islamists. Does he really believe to find real comrades in them?

The connection between Islamism and Aryanism is clear. Ask any psychiatrist.

[eurofighter]

Originally Posted by Marulus

And what would be an ideal Aryan in your opinion?

In fact I don't like to use the word "Aryan" but, as far as I know, the modern usage of Aryan is the one of the 3. Reich like blonde hair, blue eyes and truely white. And if Kreiss speaks for his "Aryan Nation", I guess he wants to be part of this kind. So he can't ally with non Aryan folk, can he?
By the way, I know that the origin of "Aryan" and Aryans lies in Asian history (probably that's why I don't pretend being an Aryan).

Originally Posted by Menydh

The connection between Islamism and Aryanism is clear. Ask any psychiatrist.

In the historic point of view you're right, of course. But in the modern usage of the word anybody (including Kreis, I guess) connect the word with the third Reich (see previous quote)
____________________
Wehe dem Feigling, der Freude und Friede nicht findet im Siege der Seinen
- Odin -

[Weltschmerz]

Originally Posted by eurofighter

In fact I don't like to use the word "Aryan" but, as far as I know, the modern usage of Aryan is the one of the 3. Reich like blonde hair, blue eyes and truely white.

I think that White can be used meaning the same or something very similar as Caucasian and Europid, but if you equal that with the hitlerist concept of "Aryan", then I think you are making a big mistake. I think it is a big mistake simply because it is not the same at all.

[bombadillo]

Originally Posted by eurofighter

So he can't ally with non Aryan folk, can he?

I think it's a silly conception in this case: a long-haired pot-bellied type who probably lives on beer and hamburgers in some trailer home wanting to ally himself with a nebulous, loose-knit, but utterly implacable and determined Islamic resistance. But for the sake of argument, if Hitler could have Arab (i.e. non-Aryan) allies -- why not this nincompoop?

[eurofighter]

Originally Posted by Gnist

... but if you equal that with the hitlerist concept of "Aryan", then I think you are making a big mistake.

I don't equal that and apologize, if I expressed myself badly. I just want to say, that Kreis sees it in this way and so his "movement" shouldn't go hand in hand with al Quaida.

But, however, bombadillo is right. Kreis' dream of ally won't be reality anyway.
_________________
Wehe dem Feigling, der Freude und Frieden nicht findet im Siege der Seinen
- Odin -

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by eurofighter

I don't equal that and apologize, if I expressed myself badly. I just want to say, that Kreis sees it in this way and so his "movement" shouldn't go hand in hand with al Quaida.

Maybe you were trying to say that he is being inconsistent?

Fine but, then again, who of these aryanists, white nationalists, nordic supremacists and what not are ever consistent?

[Dani]

"aryan" is an ambiguous term.. however it is clear that national socialism and islamism were very connected in the past because islam was considered the "true aryan warrior anti-jewish religion" from some elements connected with hitler, like Guenon. Himmler too read the "Corano" and saw in it an example of a very good religion because it was a "warrior religion", hitler said that "if in Poitiers Carlo Martello had lost it would be better", he seems to prefere islam to christianism. But these things are ignored and disgusted the national socialist people i know..

[eurofighter]

Originally Posted by Menydh

Fine but, then again, who of these aryanists, white nationalists, nordic supremacists and what not are ever consistent?

I guess this one to be a rhetorical question Of course, you're right.
And at least I hope, I didn't leave the impression, that in my opinion they are consistent!
__________________
Wehe dem Feigling, der Freude und Friede nicht findet im Siege der Seinen
- Odin -

[Marcus Marulus]

Originally Posted by Dani

"aryan" is an ambiguous term

Yes, indeed. It may be understood only lingusictically, as referring to speakers of Indo-Aryan and Iranian languages. In that case people like Mahathma Gandhi, Jawaharlal Nehru, Mulla Muhammad Omar or Ayatollah Homeini are Aryans. In that case Islam and Aryans are not two totally incompatible things.

On the other hand, it may be understood as denoting - historically only - invaders of India of 4000 years ago, and their immediate descendants, who subdued the indigenous Dravidians and thanks to who Indo-European languges are nowaydas spoekn in northern India. Some employ it to denote speakers of all Indo-European languages.

Finally, the Hitlerian interpretation (not invented by Hitler himslef, but borrowing from some late 19th century ideas and views) of the term as referring to "tall, blond and blue-eyed people", primarily of Germanic extraction, rested on the historically unproven hypothesis that the ancient Aryan invaders of Northern India were of the same racial type. It was claimed that they subsequently lost their original racial characteristics through miscegenation with the indigenous Dravidians, whilst the Germanics were the another branch of the Aryan tree, which preserved its original racial make-up.

Originally Posted by Dani

however it is clear that national socialism and islamism were very connected in the past

How? According to National-Socialist doctrines most of people who lived in what is known as "Islamic world" were racially inferior, whilst for Muslims National-socialism would be just another ideology of the "infidels".

The only common point which I see between Islam and National-Socialism would be a certain spirit of egalitarianism in both.

Originally Posted by Dani

because islam was considered the "true aryan warrior anti-jewish religion"

You are forming this attitude solely on some isolated quote by Himmler, taken out of context. Besides, whence do you get the idea that Islam is anti-Jewish? Not only that Jews lived throughout centuries in the Islamic world without major problems (with few exceptions), but they also in many cases preferred Islamic rule to the Christian one. Local Jews helped the Islamic invaders of Spain, to cite one example. They considered themselves as being spiritually closer to Muslims than to Christians because, in their view, Muslims had preserved a more genuine monotheism, virtually the same as the Jewish one, along with many Jewish alimentary habits, whereas the Christians would have compromised the principle of One God with their dogma of the Trinity.

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by Marulus

You are forming this attitude solely on some isolated quote by Himmler, taken out of context.

Not Himmler alone. Also Hitler:

Generally speaking, Hitler had Islam in a very high regard and on one occasion he proclaimed that it was the best of all religions, for its theological simplicity and for its insistance on the holy war. However in Spain, after Islam, arrived the sourge of Christianity. Hitler regretted that Islam had not expanded through Western Europe.

Hitler would have supported the Red Terror in Spain (and Islam)

[Dani]

I don't think he considered them "racially inferior", in my opinion the hitlerian race conception were not the ones which neo-nazi's ones. In fact there were some Congolese SS and similar things.
I don't consider islam as an anti-jew religion because islam and judaism have similar origins, but at 1940s islamic people were strongly anti-jewish because of political reason(today is the same)

[Kernunnos]

Originally Posted by Menydh

Let us not put Fascism and Nazism in the same basket, because they are not.

I know many neo-fascist Italians and they are nothing of the sort: NoReporter.Org [[[ altrainformazione

I must break a lance for Dani as I know him a bit, what he refers to is a certain right wing milieu that I have seen myself at work, as for an example, the types that cheer Adhmadinejad as a savior.

I know that it is difficult to believe, but such people, who style themselves as "fascist" or nazi actually are promoting the agenda of invading moslems.

Even the famous writer Maurizio Blondet, catholic traditionalist, has been routinely denying any possible peril coming from moslem presence in Europe, while often extolling moslem virtues against the evil of judaism.

This kind of position has its roots in the conviction that any evil comes from judaism, so any enemy of judaism will be automatically a friend of Europe.

Exactly the same position as we find so often in our dear stormfronters.

According to the philosophy of a famous italian proverb this would equal to an husband's self cutting his genitals to enrage his wife ...

[Marcus Marulus]

Originally Posted by Kernunnos

This kind of position has its roots in the conviction that any evil comes from judaism, so any enemy of judaism will be automatically a friend of Europe.

Exactly the same position as we find so often in our dear stormfronters.

According to the philosophy of a famous italian proverb this would equal to an husband's self cutting his genitals to enrage his wife ...

It's not as simple as that to reduce everything to opposition islam versus judaism, ie. to think that philo-Islamism necessarily comes from anti-Judaism. From the Age of Enlightenment on many European men of letters, writers, philosophers and thinkers, who were dissatisfied with the state of affairs of the European culture of the period in which they lived, turned to Islam as to some alternative, whereby they tended to idealize it. Some people (like certain French Freemasons of the 18th century) did it out of antipathy for Christianity, seeing in Islam a simpler religion and more adapted to some of their conceptions, wherein they might have been wrong due to their poor knowledge of the matter. Others were attracted to Islam not because of religious reasons, but because they preferred some Islamic societal mores, deeming them to be less hypocritical than those reigning in the contemporary European societies. I am speaking here of sympathies only.

That is partly the source of Philoislamism in some circles of the right and not necessarily only anti-Semitism.

Conversions to Islam are another thing. It is sign of total turning towards the Other. Rene Guenon converted to Sufi Islam in Cairo and he was certainly not anti-Jewish. A wealthy Jew bought the house in which he lived and set up a memorial center dedicated to him there. And you have several hundred Spanish converts in Granada trying to revive the tradition of Al-Andalus. It is not anti-Semitism that is spurning them to such a move, I guess.