White Nationalism, American citizenship and Identity loss [split]

[Crvena zvezda]

Originally Posted by Panonski

If someone is Irish, he's Irish without this -American.



With whose freedom? Americans? LOL, NOT!

Their heritage? What's their heritage anyway?



Don't have time for wiki. Say what you want to say in your words don't expect me to read some crap.



Yes, I think Mynydd once explained that. Many of those early 'Americans' were all kinds of heretics kicked out of Europe.



Yes, someone who is prepared to leave his homeland just for "a better quality of life" is a traitor in my opinion.

We have an patriotic, nationalistic saying here which is hard to translate, but I'll try "better home soil, than gold in foreing lands". This is real patriotism, not some WN crap.



They're proud of their homeland, but they've left that homeland, because it's not good enough?



I would understand that they've left their countries because they had no other alternative than death. Like Slovenians in Argentina who would be shot by communists, for example.



What you call "European-Americans" are descendats of those people.

If you think "European-Americans" can claim that land, than Kosovo Albanians (for example) can claim Kosovo. Or, Muslim immigrants claiming Europe is their "homeland", why not?



Hate towards Anglo-Saxons?



There is no White race. There is only Europid race which does not match with borders of Europe.

I have to agree with you on all these points.

[Menydh]

Before continuing, it should be noticed that Celtica has come to evidence one reason why American WNs should be ostracized and marginalized as pest from anything that is related to Europe and Nationalism: he has brought into Stirpes an endless and futile discussion about a boring issue not related to Europe and Nationalism.

Congratulations, you are American typical citizen number 300,000,001!

Originally Posted by Celtica

I figured as much. That does not change what I was trying to explain in my post however.

If you are still unsure, I can recall the full line of argument, which was deemed childish for its simplistic interpretation of complex historical events that pertain to the early social and ethnic conflict of two groups that later came to be a part of a same nation.

I say "certain", because I have yet to see a significant number of White Nationalists endorsing Nordicism. I have seen various WN British/Central/Northern Europeans, Australians and Americans (of those backgrounds)

WN is a farce impregnated of Nordicism from starts. Virtually all of the resources of WN on the internet (and well, since it is virtually non existant in real life..) slip through some excuse of Nordic supremacism at one point or another. Some, including flagships of WN, even serve as vehicles to promote Nordicist propaganda.

But if memory serves, I seem to recall that WN at some point not long ago realized of the need to open itself to peoples who did not fit in the scheme of Nordic supremacism, and so they had to refine their image. Just like WASP racism had to refine its image before to gain supporters who did not fit in the scheme of Anglo-Saxon Protestant supremacism. As everyone can see, the "evolution" of WN is a farce from the start and a bad joke.

Well, then perhaps you are better acquainted with the origins of White Nationalism than I. And if what you are telling me is indeed the case, then it has certainly moved a long way since then.

I wouldn't call moving into a cosmetic farce, a long way move. See above.

As for Skadi, I have never registered on that site, but I have heard that it is frequented by Nordicists.

New age nazi Nordicism to the best of my knowledge.

I also understand that most members of that site are European (correct me if I'm wrong on this).

Yes, you are wrong.

In its beginning stages, there was a large number of American A-S/Nordicist supremacists. By a chance, I did find out about some of them being supporters of WN leaders. I can safely assume that most others too.

Later on, Skadi merged in a German Nazi forum which provided a large number of German nutzi skinheads, though few of these participated in the sections in English language. Recently, a split made these Germans move out into a new forum, Thiazi. I won't speculate on the nature of the split as this would take too long and it is of no interest now.

At present, the American and other non European element appears to be still fairly large and surely more active, yet it is very difficult to tell with a degree of certainty since many seem to hide their americanness by not giving it away in their profiles.

If that is the reality on that site, then forums like Stormfront would be far more moderate in respect to Nordicism; amongst its European and American/New World members alike.

Who are you trying to fool here? Stormfront is host of the Nordicist pamphlet known as MOTT. Stormfront has been central to the spread of Nordicist propaganda on the internet.. through WN.

America has been void of any sort of standards in (government) Education since they desegregated schools. The fact that we have "students" flooding into our system that only can speak their unusual dialect of "Spanish" and refuse to learn English also seems to be lowering standards.

Before that, what you call American standards were laughable at.

Which you seem to adhere to adamantly.

Finally you start grasping something here.

I agree. This is why I find your sentiments contradictory when it comes to the Latin American situation.

There is not contradiction there. If they've managed to stay as a small elite minority, they are not in any way endangering the preservation of the native peoples.

It could be argued that this system has helped preserve the native identity, unlike the mass migration and expansion of non elite settlers.

You previously used the elitist mentality of the Criollos (sort of the Latin American WASPs if you will) ruling those slums as an example of what White North America should collectively aspire to.

Read above. Let me also point that White North Americans could never aspire to it, because of their nature which constitutes nothing of an elite.

That lot are some of the most selfish, cruel, scum bags to ever roam the earth. The native population may have survived Spanish occupation, but today they are suffering far worse than the few Natives we still have left here.

A few days ago a fellow Spaniard made me a private comment about you: "See how America can morally bankrupt a Spanish". I agree wholeheartedly.

It is not that the native population may have survived Spanish occupation. It is that the native population was not slaughtered, butchered and brought to a genocide by the Spanish ruling elites. Very much unlike the country to which you have sold your soul and therefore your identity and that of your ancestors.

For the hundredth time, I got you on the whole "WN isn't Nationalism" thing.

Excellent. Then, why don't you take it back to the hell where it belongs?

To address your point though, yes there are ways around this problem and the first thing one has to do is put the realities of today into perspective rather than focus of past circumstances that cannot be mended. White Americans (that includes non-elitist English/British Americans) of today cannot be held responsible for the atrocities they had no part in committing.

I am indifferent to that, honestly. It still has nothing to do with Europe and with Nationalism.

Then why highlight - or rather fabricate - them in a way to degrade those people? I have nothing against someone using facts in order to expose truth, but to purposely fabricate and/or exaggerate things in order to show that your beliefs are superior shows poor character.

Highlight, not fabricate. I am not responsible for them being degraded.

Like the philosopher Ortega and Gasset said "I am myself and my circumstances". So each one is himself and his own circumstances, and if these are degraded it is their business, not others'.

First of all you, wrongly assume that I am speaking of American White Nationalists that post on there. I was not implying such. To elaborate, there are plenty of Europeans that frequent Stormfront that may wrongly or only partially identify with White Nationalism simply because they have yet to be exposed to what their opinions truly are compatible with.

I have argued hundreds of times how unfortunate it is that Europeans are exposed to WN, and how inconvenient it is thereafter that WNs are not segregated from European Nationalists.

We have seen here a few cases of young Europeans confused because of WN, who have fortunately soon after realized that it has nothing to do with them.

Many such discussions have arisen there in the past that indicate many Europeans share beliefs that are not foreign to yours. If some of these people knew of this forum or the types of views endorsed on here, they may then be able to positively contribute to this forum and/or endorse these types politics rather than the latter. To not even tap into resources where you know you can find such people makes me wonder if you take your politics and future of your country seriously or if this is just some hobby to you.

First of all, you are assuming too much about what I know and what I ignore. To go search for people where it is easier to get them does not pose any challenge, and though it is convenient it is not always as convenient as one might believe. The reason being that if one focus only on a policy like that, political inbreeding follows and the group closes its gates to a wider audience which is harder to attract.

That happens often in Nationalist politics and it is a tombstone for Nationalism.

Well, I believe in the evolution from the ape theory (it should not even be called such because it's pretty much been proven)

I was being clearly rhetoric.

That leads me to ask if you are in favor of regionalism, which seems to be ever so popular throughout much of Spain. Clearly, that sort of individual regard is far more intricate and easily applied to people than Spanish Nationalism; which to many Iberians seems just as illegitimate as White Nationalism.

I believe not in regionalism which I am not sure what you understand by it, but in Foralism or, for the sake of your understanding, Spanish traditional federalism.

The real national identity of Spain lies in there, not in jacobine constructed states.

It's far easier to assume as opposed to actually go on those forums and gain a general consensus on the issue. If you were to actually consult people on the issue, as I have, then you would perhaps see things differently.

But I've seen what they "discuss" and how they "discuss" it. Are you seriously suggesting that there is any value other than entertainment there?

It just makes it easier to govern the citizens of these areas. The last thing we need in this country is bigger government.

Ok.. I don't know what to say to this and I don't know what to do with it either. How is it related to the immigration problem in Europe, or to Nationalism?

This is not a war. These are personal arguments made by you that stoop to very low levels.

That's your saying.

If you launch an an attack, you start a war. If you pursue a policy of overt hostility, you are likely to start a war. If you don't understand this, then you are, clearly a White Nationalist or of similar intellectual level and value.

Let me ask you this, if you were in a real public forum and you were discussing these sorts of topics would you really use such words to describe Americans and/or White Nationalists? If so, I doubt many would take you for the intelligent, well versed, individual you appear to be.

Let us put it this way. If I were an American and I were in a real life public forum or in an internet forum, where Europe and Nationalism is being discussed, I wouldn't discuss about the value of coconuts in Africa or the value of WN nuts in America. Unless it had some relation to Europe and Nationalism.

Does this answer your question?

First of all, there are in fact Spanish-Americans in this very state whose backgrounds date back to the Spanish Conquest of this land. People living in St. Augustine whose family lived through all occupancies; British, American, etc. Many of whose ancestors also fought in the American Revolution.

We all know about American and their claims of incestry.

This "spiritual symbolism" is shared by a lot more people still living here than you think.

Obviously not you, who adheres to much of what is opposed to that spiritual identity.

Moreover, what harm is it to you, or anyone, if others want to honor that fundamental part of this state's history? Even the current state flag has a picture of a Spanish fleet on it.

You are not honouring it. You are degrading it.

You cannot expect respect because you are being disrespectful.

Is this what makes for debate on here? Avatars?

No. The debate is about what on earth is a Yankee racist doing here and what do we have to do to get rid of that White Trash once and for all, to keep on discussing quietly without alien interferences.

Originally Posted by Celtica

Cuba is not worth the trip to be honest. Anything decent about Cuba immigrated to this country decades ago.

To help people get an idea of what you mean with words like decent, we should recall here that when the American government vowed to grant asylum anyone who wanted to flee from Cuba, as a move to discredit Fidel Castro's regime, Fidel emptied his prison and packed them all to Florida.

I'm not going to be as mean and low as you and assume that all Cuban-Americans are criminals released by Fidel. However, I must absolutely point to the fact that most of the Cubans who fought for the Revolution in Cuba, were fighting to liberate their country from the degradation that America and Batista had brought into it. Americans had turned Cuba into their island-brothel.

You speak of decency but you have none when you insult those Cuban freedom fighters like you do.

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by Celtica

As for Skadi, I have never registered on that site, but I have heard that it is frequented by Nordicists. I also understand that most members of that site are European (correct me if I'm wrong on this). If that is the reality on that site, then forums like Stormfront would be far more moderate in respect to Nordicism; amongst its European and American/New World members alike.

Hot off the press, from the founder of Skadi:

Originally Posted by Thorburn

Fact remains that Skadi is an American board, operated and owned by Americans

Skadi Forum

[Celtica]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

To help people get an idea of what you mean with words like decent, we should recall here that when the American government vowed to grant asylum anyone who wanted to flee from Cuba, as a move to discredit Fidel Castro's regime, Fidel emptied his prison and packed them all to Florida.

I'm not going to be as mean and low as you and assume that all Cuban-Americans are criminals released by Fidel. However, I must absolutely point to the fact that most of the Cubans who fought for the Revolution in Cuba, were fighting to liberate their country from the degradation that America and Batista had brought into it. Americans had turned Cuba into their island-brothel.

You speak of decency but you have none when you insult those Cuban freedom fighters like you do.

I don't have all day to post on these forums, I do have a life. I will however address this whole Cuban thing. Those so-called "freedom fighters" were nothing but a small group of opportunists that exploited the poverty stricken minorities into helping their "revolution". Yeah Batista was an Uncle Tom to the United States (which Castro himself was willing to pledge himself to be at first), but the general conditions of that country were vastly superior to what we find them in today.

There were two major influxes of Cuban immigration, the first was that of the 1950's when the vast majority of the Spanish (and other European) Cubans got out. Those Cubans came to the United States with very little and elevated to very predominant positions in American society. The other mass immigration took place in the 1980's when Castro flooded us with many of his ethnic criminals. How you can equate one with the other is beyond me.

If you want to be an ignoramus and assume that the majority Negro population of Cuba today is of some higher social caliber than the Cubans we have in this country (who are largely of Spanish heritage), then by all means be my guest. I wouldn't say you are putting much faith in your people however. And furthermore, those "superior" Cubans are still risking their lives to come to this country due to the current conditions in that wreck of a country.

[Menydh]

The timing comes right for you to have run out of time to discuss further here.

Cuba is Cuba. It is not Europe. You are so stupid as to assume what I know and what I ignore.

Well, for your information, I was not speaking of Black Cubans. I do know a few Cubans who are close to Castro and who I've had in my parent's home on occasions. They are nothing of what you are depicting here, but they are.. I was going to say White but that would be denigrating them because they are Spanish to the bones. Differently to the likes of you, their spanishness show not only through their faces but through their style.

Communists? They are as much Communists as you are Spanish. That is, nothing. They are Cuban Patriots who refused to let their island to become the brothel for degenerated America and the hideout for the American financial and maffia criminals. They are more "nationalist" than you and the rest of your WN gang could ever dream to be.

A small island like Cuba being threatened by a giant monster that is the US of America, they had no alternative but to find a partner which could help them, which at the time was the USSR. What has become of Cuba since is the story of a giant monster abusing a tiny little island. And yet being humiliated by the resilience of that little island.

I wonder if your allegiance to America and not to Cuba, and to WN is related to the rumours that I've heard of the funding of Jorge Mas Canosa's foundation to WN.


Welcome to the new, restricted usergroup of Aliens.

[Crvena zvezda]

I don't have all day to post on these forums, I do have a life. I will however address this whole Cuban thing. Those so-called "freedom fighters" were nothing but a small group of opportunists that exploited the poverty stricken minorities into helping their "revolution". Yeah Batista was an Uncle Tom to the United States (which Castro himself was willing to pledge himself to be at first), but the general conditions of that country were vastly superior to what we find them in today.

No. The average Cuban in the 1950s lived below the standard of the average person in the America's south of the U.S. In the 1950s 85% of the money was concentrated in the hands of americans and the rich class. Cuban's are better off then in the 1980s despite illegal U.S. sanctions and constant U.S. attempts to undermine their state. The average Cuban has better health care then most people in the America's, has a better education, is wealthier then most once America and Canada are taken out of the equation, owns his own land (Cuba allows private land ownership) and is better off in almost all social aspects. The only thing cuban's might not be better off is in certain material goods like cars and many times this is because of the illegal nature of U.S. sanctions.

There were two major influxes of Cuban immigration, the first was that of the 1950's when the vast majority of the Spanish (and other European) Cubans got out. Those Cubans came to the United States with very little and elevated to very predominant positions in American society. The other mass immigration took place in the 1980's when Castro flooded us with many of his ethnic criminals. How you can equate one with the other is beyond me.

Who cares about those from the 1950s. Oh look I'm so poor even though my family owned land and were rich in Cuba. Those who came in the 1950s did not have little the only thing they lost was not theuir money (which most brought with them to the states), what they did lose was land. Land which any one would agree was too much for one person in a country as poor as cuba in the 1950s and houses so big that in many cases they are now inhabited by several families. Again they have little to do with Europe, aside from descent.

So what if they flooded the united states with criminals. If Serbia had an atlantic coast I'd do the same to Albanians, Muslims, Turks, homosexuals, sexual deviants and criminals. I'd put them on a boat and ship them off to the united states. You can't blame a country for wanting to get rid of criminals by sending them to the most criminal state on earth.

It's simple, both groups are criminal. One are economic criminals while the other ones are petty criminals.

If you want to be an ignoramus and assume that the majority Negro population of Cuba today is of some higher social caliber than the Cubans we have in this country (who are largely of Spanish heritage), then by all means be my guest. I wouldn't say you are putting much faith in your people however. And furthermore, those "superior" Cubans are still risking their lives to come to this country due to the current conditions in that wreck of a country.

Most of the Cubans in the united states are either descendants of criminals or lack any morals or human decency. Basically the same thing. Their risking their country to go to a land build on propaganda geared towards them and then again most who are trying to flee their country are low skilled workers and criminals.