Polish Armies 1596-1696

[Perun]

These are some great pictures I recently found:







[img]http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/2634/wjazd5vn7nx.jpg[img]

[Perun]

And my favorite of them all(for obvious reasons). Dont ever mess with a Ukrainian Cossack!

[Wilkolak]

Magnificant pictures Perun, thank you for posting them! At the time, the Polish cavalry was invincible, huzars in the heavy cavalry, Cossacks in the light... no wonder Poland was only beaten and partioned through alliance of three major powers. Incidently, what is your view on Ukraine (the lands) during those times (before the Chmielnicki rebellion 0f 1648), are you against the fact that the lands were under Polish rule?

[Perun]

Originally Posted by Wilkolak

Incidently, what is your view on Ukraine (the lands) during those times (before the Chmielnicki rebellion 0f 1648), are you against the fact that the lands were under Polish rule?

Yes I am against that fact. Im also against many of the respressive policies the Szlatcha placed on the Ukrainian peasentry that made the revolt possible in the first place. Although from Ive read the Polish peasentry faced the same hardship, even to the point of the Szlatcha justifying their policies by claiming to being a Sarmatian nobility ruling over the Slavic peasentry.

Of course the Russians weren't better, eventually they screwed us over with the Treaty of Pereslav.

[Wilkolak]

Here is one time I can trully say the Poles have done another nation wrong, that is to the Ukraine. The Szlachta did one thing to save their asses, they put jews in control of the lands in the Ukraine, none of the locals were alowed to leave, and they were responsible for heavy taxation too of the locals too. That's why Chmielnicki was so anti-semitic as opposed to anti-Polish. I am glad Ukraine is finally free, it deserves nothing less!

[Perun]

Originally Posted by Wilkolak

Here is one time I can trully say the Poles have done another nation wrong, that is to the Ukraine. The Szlachta did one thing to save their asses, they put jews in control of the lands in the Ukraine, none of the locals were alowed to leave, and they were responsible for heavy taxation too of the locals too. That's why Chmielnicki was so anti-semitic as opposed to anti-Polish. I am glad Ukraine is finally free, it deserves nothing less!

Well if you noticed, I didnt blame the Polish people. The Szlachta screwed more than enough people over, including the Polish people themselves. That was one reason why the Polish peasentry refused to join many of the revolts against the Russian occupation, it because was largely centered around the nobility that didnt care much about the populace.

Khlmelnsky certainly preferred the Polish way of doing things to the Muscovite ways. When he signed the Treaty of Pereslav, he assumed the Tsar would act very like the Polish kings; ie enter a bi-lateral agreement(Kozaks swear alliengence, kozaks get autonomy and the crown protects them from foreign aggression). However the Tsar made clear he makes demans, not obeys them; and basically imposed a unilateral agreement on them. The Kozaks swear loyalty to the Tsar and thats that!

Khlmelnsky was so outraged, he literally came close to calling off the treaty altogether.

Well Im glad you believe Ukraine should be a free nation. I wish Poland the best as well, and not just because Im part Polish.

[Wilkolak]

One positive note about the Szlachta, they led one of the most powerful armies ever seen!

[Austrvegr]

Great pics indeed. Thank you.

[Seaxiscmann]

Yea Awesome pics! It really brings pride to me and my Polish ancestry! Btw, some of those Cossacks look like Tatars

[Wilkolak]

Hmmmm, you seem to mention Tartars in every post, hehehe, why is that?

BTW. Cossacks originated from Crimea, so I guess you can understand.

[Seaxiscmann]

It's because they're cool Are there Crimean Tatars in Poland?

[Wilkolak]

Very few, I believe that about a 1 000, maybe less still live in North Eastern Poland, though before the Soviet Union took our lands in the East (Yalta Treaty), there were mor in the North East, but they currently reside in Belarus, so no, not too many, and those that live there have their own community.

[Señor Malo]

Originally Posted by Seaxiscmann

It's because they're cool Are there Crimean Tatars in Poland?

I would harly associate kossaks to Poland.May be I'm wrong, there have been polih kossaks?

[Wilkolak]

Cossacks have to do with Russians and Ukrainians, no Poles, the only reason Cossacks fought for us at one stage was before the 1648 Chmielnicki Rebellion, Ukraine belonged to Poland, and the Cossacks were used in the Polish light cavalry (they were some of the best horsemen in history, and very dedicated fighters).

That's why I say, if there was, for some reason, a Slavic Union in the 1600's (Polish Szlachta and Ukrainian Cossacks in the light cavalry, Polish huzaria in the heavy cavalry and Russian infantry and artillery), there would have not been an army on earth to have stoppped them! I guess Czarina Katarina almost got it right in the 1800's, oh well...

[svin]

Hm... Just look at pictures of Cossacks and try to find non-white admixture. Very few, actually. Most of them are Terek Cossacks. Cossacks are just ex-Russian and Ukrainian peasants. Certainly, there is admixture but to associate Cossacks with Tatars is ridiculous.

[Gottslav]

Originally Posted by svin

Hm... Just look at pictures of Cossacks and try to find non-white admixture. Very few, actually. Most of them are Terek Cossacks. Cossacks are just ex-Russian and Ukrainian peasants. Certainly, there is admixture but to associate Cossacks with Tatars is ridiculous.

That's what I found on different theories of non-Russian origin of Cossacks (in Russian)
http://grants.rsu.ru/osi/Don_NC/Middle/Versia.htm

Seems like there's no mutual consent as to the origin of this people, but most agree that the core of Cossacks was formed by runaway Russian and Ukrainian peasants, but also traders, those sentenced to death, Poles, converted Tatars, etc.

Anyway, I'm not so sure it's a right thing to jump to conclusions about the racial make-up of Cossacks based solely on these pictures. Where do they originate, how authentic are they?

[Seaxiscmann]

Ukrainians in general are a mix... Most Poles and Ukrainians I know are darker, but I guess thats normal Cossacks are great dancers and swordsmen..

[Gottslav]

Originally Posted by Seaxiscmann

Ukrainians in general are a mix... Most Poles and Ukrainians I know are darker, but I guess thats normal Cossacks are great dancers and swordsmen..

Great dancers?
Rather funny idea of Cossacks you have there for sure. I believe it's not shared by most people living in Ukraine or Russia, but... whatever turns you on.

[svin]

Originally Posted by Seaxiscmann

Ukrainians in general are a mix... Most Poles and Ukrainians I know are darker, but I guess thats normal Cossacks are great dancers and swordsmen..

You're funny guy with strange imagination.