Autonome Nationalisten

[Routasydän]

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What is your opinion on these guys? What is their origin? Do you think such copycatting of Anarchist subculture in terms of symbolism and dress is acceptable?

Personally I think it can prove to be a very successful strategie, but somehow I'm a little sceptical. I need more information before I can pass judgement. It would be especially helpful to hear from our German members.

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by wilpuri

What is your opinion on these guys? What is their origin? Do you think such copycatting of Anarchist subculture in terms of symbolism and dress is acceptable?

There is an historical precedent from the 30s, in Spain.

Ramiro Ledesma, the ideologue and leader of National-Syndicalism (JONS), adopted the black and red colours of Anarcho-Syndicalism. He also went to Anarcho-Syndicalist circles to recruit supporters.

The red-black then passed on Falange, after the merging of FE with JONS. After a one year triumvirate, he left the new group (FE de las JONS), or was expelled from it depending on the versions.

There are various alleged reason for his alienation, always linked to his disagreement with the leadership Falange's founder, José Antonio Primo de Rivera.

One reason is that he perceived that José Antonio was a reformist and not a revolutionary, while he believed that the National Revolution was necessary to stop the Bolshevik Revolution.

Another reason, the refusal of Primo de Rivera to give a pro-active response to the numerous violent attacks by the Juventudes Socialistas (the youth branch of the Socialists).


WWW.RAMIROLEDESMA.COM

[Routasydän]

Thanks for that interesting contribution, Mynydd. I have read a precious little on the National Syndicalists of the Iberian peninsula before, of both the Portuguese and Spanish variants.

[Menydh]

National Syndicalism in Portugal comes from a different source.. kind of. Its founder Rolão Preto came from the Integralismo Lusitano (inspired by Action Française). Though there was an influence of Ramiro Ledesma, and various close contacts: Castilian National Syndicalist Onésimo Redondo (Juntas Castellanas de Acción Hispánica) was exiled in Porto, and Rolão Preto later was exiled in Madrid where he collaborated with José Antonio Primo de Rivera, who was his host to write the 32 point programme of Falange.

I'm not sure at which point Ledesma's and Preto's ideas of National Syndicalism converge. The union with Primo de Rivera's Falange conferred National Syndicalism a Style which is unique and makes Falange different from the political ideologies of those years.

On a personal analysis, I would say that National Syndicalism's idea of the State differs from Fascism, National Socialism and Communism in that it is viewed in absolute terms as in the service of the Nation.

[Mediterraneo]

This text analyzes the symbolism of the black colour in those groups, but is only available in French or Italian.

Perhaps someone could translate it.

After a one year triumvirate, he left the new group (FE de las JONS), or was expelled from it depending on the versions.

All the information points that he left F.E. because the different points of view in the political path of the party, he (Ramiro) wanted great marches, José Antonio little demonstrations...

The leader of the JONS in Galicia warned Ramiro about the people who were in Falange and he foresee the exit of Ramiro from the Party. A lot of "jonsistas" didn't enter in FE, other left before the fusion, they were a minority in FE de las JONS (around 10%).

And it is well known that the people who financed FE were annoyed by the mottos, actions and the ideas of the "jonsistas" and there were betrayals by the reactionary, militar and bourgeois people.

And the other reasons that Mynydd has said.

[Cirrus]

There will be a programme about them [in French] on this webradio, on Tuesday the 6th :




And also interesting, in Italy : Casa Pound, a Nationalist Squat in Rome

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[donTomas]

Can these guys be linked with that "movement" known as "national-anarchism"?

[Routasydän]

Originally Posted by donTomas

Can these guys be linked with that "movement" known as "national-anarchism"?

I'm sure they share some influences, but somehow I doubt it. At least I've seen no evidence in that direction.

[Silas]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

There will be a programme about them [in French] on this webradio, on Tuesday the 6th :




And also interesting, in Italy : Casa Pound, a Nationalist Squat in Rome

Argh, to bad i can´t speak Italian (or french, which is it? :s)

[grimdoll]

NICE! (we norwgians don´t say much you know)

[Cirrus]

Originally Posted by Silas

Argh, to bad i can´t speak Italian (or french, which is it? :s)

The webradio is Italian, but it's in French on Tuesday and Sunday night. I will try to listen to it and say what it was about next week.

[Silas]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

The webradio is Italian, but it's in French on Tuesday and Sunday night. I will try to listen to it and say what it was about next week.

Vous remercier mon ami

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by donTomas

Can these guys be linked with that "movement" known as "national-anarchism"?

No, not the Italian guys of Mutuo Sociale.

They are backed by Fiamma Tricolore and Gabriele Adinolfi (see No Reporter).

[Marcus Marulus]

They are some kind of "leftist nationalists" or what?

[Carnyx]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

There will be a programme about them [in French] on this webradio, on Tuesday the 6th :




And also interesting, in Italy : Casa Pound, a Nationalist Squat in Rome

Could you rip it for us or anyone? I couldn't do it myself, unfortunately...

[Savorgnan]

Originally Posted by Plethon

They are some kind of "leftist nationalists" or what?

Even if "leftist nationalist" seem to be a strange expression, why not? After all, maybe Mussolini was some kind of "leftist nationalist" in his times? He formerly was a socialist leader. And I don't see that much traditional values ( thus "rightish" ) in Italian Fascism ( unlike the Spanish Francism ), but a stiff social program. At first sight, I will tend to see those guys as anarchists. Thus, against the wall with twelve bullets in their chests. But maybe they are part of nationalism future. I've heard some formerly leftist "intellectuals" linking nation and socialism. Maybe they are giving up their old equation of socialism = internationalism ( nowadays internationalism equals liberalism, and ultimately liberalism equals a-nationalism ). Of course, they remain socialists, but if they begin to see the nation as the only entity capable of resisting globalism and liberalism, that will worth thinking about future discussions. After all, the only thing that counts is the result.