Europe Awake

[Magian]

Originally Posted by Plethon

Such a monster that you envision as a desirable future super-state could only be Socialist and function on Socialist principles.

You need a Monster to stand against the monstrous.

I advocate for a "Hawk" foreign EU policy against the rest of the World. The "Dove" foreign policy brought us here - on a verge to be conquered from within without a fight.

Some people might feel offended from the next, but:

Europe MUST conquer and exploit other nations or be conquered and exploited by them.

The idea to just chase away the "bad" immigrants and "Live happy and peacefully ever after" is childish...

[Marcus Marulus]

Originally Posted by Magian

You need a Monster to stand against the monstrous.

So you are not against Socialism after all?

Originally Posted by Magian

I advocate for a "Hawk" foreign EU policy against the rest of the World.

How? Against whom? For what purpose? I suppose you include also American occupational bases in Europe as belonging to the "rest of the world" you are talking about...

Originally Posted by Magian

The "Dove" foreign policy brought us here - on a verge to be conquered from within without a fight.

Did you confuse things? It was dove domestic policy that brought us here.

Originally Posted by Magian

Some people might feel offended from the next, but:
Europe MUST conquer and exploit other nations or be conquered and exploited by them.

So enroll into the army...

[Marcus Marulus]

Segomo is the guy who thinks like you...

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by Magian

You need a Monster to stand against the monstrous.

I advocate for a "Hawk" foreign EU policy against the rest of the World. The "Dove" foreign policy brought us here - on a verge to be conquered from within without a fight.

I refuse to be related in anyway, be it politically or otherwise, with people and countries who think the way you do.

You come from a small and weak country, yet you are a megalomaniac who would put the identity of the countries of the club that you have just joined into jeopardy, only to attain the megalomaniac dreams that you cannot achieve yourself.

I refuse my nation to be identified with the likes of you.

Some people might feel offended from the next, but:

Europe MUST conquer and exploit other nations or be conquered and exploited by them.

The idea to just chase away the "bad" immigrants and "Live happy and peacefully ever after" is childish...

No one is so naïve as to believe that. We discuss politics, alternatives, options.

The military must be strong as no other. But it is to be put for the defense, not for the aggression. Not only for physical (geographical) defense, but also for the defense of the common interests. Geopolitics are much more than shows of military strength. It is diplomacy, economics, cooperation, trade, treaties and more.

Your ideas can only be understood from a third world mentality. To relate to people like you would mean to send our own men to die for the megalomaniac ideas of a third-world retard, and our women and children to suffer for the loss of their husbands, sons, fathers.

[Monolith]

Originally Posted by Magian

The idea to just chase away the "bad" immigrants and "Live happy and peacefully ever after" is childish...

Perhaps, but it's a start. I, along with many others, consider immigrants to be the greatest threat to our civilization, our children, and to our way of life.

How can you wish for powerful Europe, and dream of some better life, with Europe facing uncertain future, at best?
I think we must concentrate on solving internal problems first, because otherwise Europe will rot from within, and then all our plans and hopes will be in vain.

[Magian]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

No one is so naïve as to believe that. We discuss politics, alternatives, options.

Don't call me "Megalomaniac" or flame me just because I don't support the Isolationist-Protective Dove policy.

As you say, this forum is for discussion of various point views. I'm pretty open to change my opinion on the subject if you present your views better and point to me where I'm wrong.

Let me explain my point of view better and why I support Hawk Foreign Policy and Anti-Isolationism of EU :

In the 21-st century the economical and political entities are getting bigger and bigger. This is not 19-th century where you could afford to run small enterprises based economy and you don't have the rest of the World sleeping in the Stone Age. Today Europe have to compete against USA, China, India, Russia, The OPEC countries, Japan, South Korea.

Europe have always been Innovative and Aggressive (Commercially and Military). This is the real "European" way. I don't mean - "Go and conquer the World by a Sword" but "Invest in a Strong Military and use it as a tool to get what you want and stand your ground." Look at the Americans. Yes, I know that most of you don't like their foreign policy, but USA is doing well
for their own good because of the Hawks in the White House.

National Isolationism and Protectionism for countries with population as small as 2 000 000 will be disastrous for them in a longer term in today's World.

It's pity to see EU countries digging their heads one by one into the sand like ostriches looking down under for a long lost glory and hoping that the World won't slap their naked butts.

[Monolith]

Originally Posted by Magian

Look at the Americans. Yes, I know that most of you don't like their foreign policy, but USA is doing well
for their own good because of the Hawks in the White House.

They are maybe doing well for the time being, but for how long? Their foreign policy is based on imperialism, which is appropriately masked to democracy and worldwide protection of human rights(yeah right), while the Americans are the world's most racist nation. They are constantly proving that they are nothing but hypocrites, and they care little about that.
Tell me, can a country that is based on oppression of other sovereign nations, and a country that doesn't serve the interests of its own people, but the interests of rich and powerful corporations instead, have a bright future?
I don't think so. Their fall is imminent, and when they do fall, those who stand by their side will undoubtedly follow.

National Isolationism and Protectionism for countries with population as small as 2 000 000 will be disastrous for them in a longer term in today's World.

Why do you think so, and what do you propose then?

[Magian]

Originally Posted by Monolith

They are maybe doing well for the time being, but for how long? Their foreign policy is based on imperialism, which is appropriately masked to democracy and worldwide protection of human rights(yeah right), while the Americans are the world's most racist nation. They are constantly proving that they are nothing but hypocrites, and they care little about that.
Tell me, can a country that is based on oppression of other sovereign nations, and a country that doesn't serve the interests of its own people, but the interests of rich and powerful corporations instead, have a bright future?
I don't think so. Their fall is imminent, and when they do fall, those who stand by their side will undoubtedly follow.

The same words about "Bad American Imperialists" and what a "racists and fascist" they are were written on big red banners all over in the communist countries. I don't believe in that anymore. Got some kind of immunity maybe.

Originally Posted by Monolith

Why do you think so, and what do you propose then?

I think that because I don't believe small countries with peaceful isolationist policy stand a chance alone in a world where big strong countries are very commercially and military aggressive. Even today the whole united EU is faced with the Danger to become totally dependent on Russia for energy supplies. What about alone small country?

[Monolith]

Originally Posted by Magian

The same words about "Bad American Imperialists" and what a "racists and fascist" they are were written on big red banners all over in the communist countries. I don't believe in that anymore. Got some kind of immunity maybe.

It's up to you, to believe whatever you choose. My opinion is that they were once a great nation, with tremendous potential, but they eventually became corrupt and power-hungry and misused the potential.

I think that because I don't believe small countries with peaceful isolationist policy stand a chance alone in a world where big strong countries are very commercially and military aggressive.

The survival of the fittest. If we're guided by such policies, such as "kill or be killed", we're no different from animals. I'm not saying that such things don't exist, I'm saying that it is truly unfortunate that they do exist. That's completely wrong, and if embrace such behavior, we'll never see progress, as species.

Even today the whole united EU is faced with the Danger to become totally dependent on Russia for energy supplies. What about alone small country?

I am aware that Russia is the Europe's primary energy supplier, but it isn't the only one. Anyway, why would Russia choose to harm European countries in that way, or any small country, for that matter?

[Errigal]

Originally Posted by Magian

Look at the Americans. Yes, I know that most of you don't like their foreign policy, but USA is doing well for their own good because of the Hawks in the White House.

Here's an American who would disagree with you:

In the administration of George W. Bush, the Republican Party has achieved the greatest combination of idiocy and evil in human history.


The Republicans have bogged America down in a gratuitous and illegal war. The war has destroyed Iraq, killed between 650,000 and 1,000,000 Iraqi civilians, displaced 4,000,000 Iraqis, and littered the country with depleted uranium. Bush’s war remains unwon despite its five-year duration and $1 trillion in out-of-pocket and incurred future costs.
[...]
The Bush administration seems destined to produce such disasters that it will be driven to the use of nuclear weapons in order to avoid defeat. The Bush administration possesses the combination of evil and stupidity required to escalate a failed "cakewalk war" into a nuclear one.

Many of the administration’s most evil members – Wolfowitz, Feith, Libby, Rumsfeld, Rove, and Gonzales – have been discarded as the tragedy deepens, but Cheney remains ensconced as does the moron in the White House. Before they fall, Bush and Cheney will bring more sorrow to the world and more shame to Americans.

More Shame, More Sorrow by Paul Craig Roberts

Originally Posted by Magian

It's pity to see EU countries digging their heads one by one into the sand like ostriches looking down under for a long lost glory and hoping that the World won't slap their naked butts.

That's American locker-room talk from the NFL pre-game show.

Originally Posted by Magian

I think that because I don't believe small countries with peaceful isolationist policy stand a chance alone in a world where big strong countries are very commercially and military aggressive. Even today the whole united EU is faced with the Danger to become totally dependent on Russia for energy supplies. What about alone small country?

The United States is currently the greatest threat to peace and prosperity, not Russia. Do try to keep up with current events.

[Magian]

Originally Posted by Monolith

It's up to you, to believe whatever you choose. My opinion is that they were once a great nation, with tremendous potential, but they eventually became corrupt and power-hungry and misused the potential.

Europe is still dependent on USA for security. For Good or for bad. I say that EU must become more independent. It's pity that the Europeans - once a great people today are behaving like a naughty children towards big brothers - The Americans. They curse them but rely on them for security.

Originally Posted by Monolith

The survival of the fittest. If we're guided by such policies, such as "kill or be killed", we're no different from animals. I'm not saying that such things don't exist, I'm saying that it is truly unfortunate that they do exist. That's completely wrong, and if embrace such behavior, we'll never see progress, as species.

Yes, I know and understand what you're talking about (still have some Christian values) but I tend to be political realist and not political idealist like you are.

Originally Posted by Monolith

I am aware that Russia is the Europe's primary energy supplier, but it isn't the only one. Anyway, why would Russia choose to harm the European country in that way, or any small country, for that matter?

To harm? No! But is it good for you to be dependent on Mother Russia? For me it's not acceptable at all.

I would like to see EU independent political entity. Not dependent on USA for security and not dependent on Russia for energy resources. If all member countries get into egocentric isolationist protectionist state it will never become reality.

"Strength comes from unity" as they say.

[Errigal]

Originally Posted by Magian

Europe is still dependent on USA for security. For Good or for bad. I say that EU must become more independent. It's pity that the Europeans - once a great people today are behaving like a naughty children towards big brothers - The Americans. They curse them but rely on them for security.

Only an American (or someone stupid enough to ape an American) could come up with this. You do at least know that two Western European states are nuclear powers don't you?

[Magian]

Originally Posted by Errigal

Only an American (or someone stupid enough to ape an American) could come up with this. You do at least know that two Western European states are nuclear powers don't you?

So they are! But still everyone was happy to be put under the American antimissile shield.

[Errigal]

Originally Posted by Magian

So they are! But still everyone was happy to be put under the American antimissile shield.

I always love these people from small countries who think they're so tough because they're friends with the neighbourhood bully. I mean this as no insult to Bulgaria because I get the feeling you're no more Bulgarian than me. The small country with a big mouth I was thinking of is south of Lebanon in occupied Palestine.

If you are actually an Orthodox Bulgarian then you need to give your head a shake and stop visiting the Free Republic website.

[Magian]

Originally Posted by Errigal

I always love these people from small countries who think they're so tough because they're friends with the neighbourhood bully. I mean this as no insult to Bulgaria because I get the feeling you're no more Bulgarian than me. The small country with a big mouth I was thinking of is south of Lebanon in occupied Palestine.

Don't forget that I by no means represent public opinion.

On the other hand I did not want to offend anyone, but from the responses I get guess I did. Apology if happened so.

OK. Tell me what is YOUR view for the future of Europe and how the Dove policy is going to help?