For svin...

[Gottslav]

Originally Posted by Khozinsky

Well, well...have you got any evidences?

Guzman (Gusman) is rather known Jewish name, no?
Anyway, my judgement wasn't made on this fact alone. I've read his genealogy somewhere in a popular newspaper. There were names like Moishe or something in it.

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by Gottslav

Guzman (Gusman) is rather known Jewish name, no?

Is it? That would be interesting to know. There is a noble house in Spain founded by one Pérez de Guzmán, which its origins are being currently disputed by one of the descendents, the "red duchess".

[Leland Gaunt]

Guzman is definitely jewish.

[Errigal]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

Is it? That would be interesting to know. There is a noble house in Spain founded by one Pérez de Guzmán, which its origins are being currently disputed by one of the descendents, the "red duchess".

Originally Posted by Ed Gein

Guzman is definitely jewish.

I think you're both right. It is one of those interesting coincidences.

[Errigal]

Originally Posted by Gottslav

...
What fills me with hope in this situation is that I see modern 'Russian' state like a house of cards ready to fall under the weight of one strong punch.

Originally Posted by Khozinsky

We should persuade the majority of Russians in it - and this state will fall.
Today almost every Russian feels subconsciously the fall of "Russian Federation". And we must help our people to convert these feelings into belief.

What about making Russia even more vulnerable to outsiders?

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by Gottslav

Guzman (Gusman) is rather known Jewish name, no?
Anyway, my judgement wasn't made on this fact alone. I've read his genealogy somewhere in a popular newspaper. There were names like Moishe or something in it.

Originally Posted by Ed Gein

Guzman is definitely jewish.

Originally Posted by Errigal

I think you're both right. It is one of those interesting coincidences.

I'll put next a translation of some pieces of a web page from the House of Medina Sidonia. The current Duchess of Medina Sidonia is researcher of the archives of the Ducal house. I assume that the text has been written by her. She is known as the Red Duchess for her Leftist and Liberal ideas.

The Ponce de Leon family had posessions in Castile, because they were Old Christians. The Guzman family of Sanlucar didn't, because the founder of the house was from beyond the seas, land of Muslims. He immigrated bringing money with him, and bringing Gacia Gallegos in his company. And he bought [...] He died without leaving the Last Wills, distributing his posessions his widow, Maria Alphon. Barrantes, the hagiographist of the family, dissimulated the Aphon, of Jewish connotations, that appears in the Last Will and other documents that made reference to this lady, without the family name Coronel next to it. It appears, however, in a writing preserved in Santa Ines of Seville. Dated in 1302, Maria Alfonso Coronel, "muger que so de Alfonso Perez de Gosman" (wife that I am of Alfonso Perez de Gosman), appears as the daughter of Ferrand Gonzalez Coronel and of Sancha Vazquez, from who she inherited the posessions in Portugal.

In the verses of the "Provincial", the Guzman coetaneous of Enrique IV, is treated as a "moorish dog" and he is accused of singing, in the choir, the "verses of the Quram".

In 1544 the 6th Duke of Medina Sidonia payed for the services of Barrantes Maldonado, the intellectual benefactor of the house, who obtained for him ancestors politically and religiously correct.

The chronicler makes the brother of the Duke of Brittany, who fought in the Battle of Clavijo, the father of all of the Guzmans of Castile.

[...]


3archivo

This is one document from the archives of the House of Medina Sidonia. The web page also includes a link to transcriptions of original documents, but I haven't seen the transcription of the document of Santa Inés de Sevilla that is mentioned in the text.

Alfonso Pérez de Guzmán has often been said of Germanic origin (Guzman, Gutman), and of Gothic origin by the usual suspects.

It shouldn't be strange to find Jewish ancestry among the nobility of Spain of Gothic origins. Jewish admixture in the families of Gothic origin should not be strange, as the Goths were of the heretic Arianist faith, unlike the Catholic Hispano-Roman families, and Arianism was tolerant and closer to the Hebrew faith.

[Khozinsky]

Originally Posted by Errigal

What about making Russia even more vulnerable to outsiders?

These Russian states will not be more vulnerable for outsiders as modern "Russia". They will be truely Russian states with nationalism as state ideology.

As for me - I prefer small, bur really Russian state, with 5-10 mln of Russians (European Russians!!!), than huge Empire with Tatars, Chechenians etc., with asiatic mentality, dirty cities, ethnic mafies, impudent officials, total degeneration.

I hope, there will be many Russian states, so everyone will be able to choose, where to live - in nothern states with people democracy and national-liberalist ideology or in southern states with their traditions of Cossacks government.

Anyway, we should try change the current situation, because more 10-15 years of putinism - and our people will be lost (f.e.,number of ethnic Russians in Putinland reduces by million a year). After these 15 years Russians will look like Chinesians (and think like Chinesians - and this is the worst!) and there won't be hope to revive our national identity and to build national Russian state(s) with nationalist Russian government. Russia will finally turn into in-national asiatic empire, just like USSR, where were no nations and nationalities, only united "soviet nation".

I think, Europe is not interested in "birth" of new imperial monster on the east borders of the continent. And we, Russians, are not interested in it too. So we should (and can) help each other

[Errigal]

Originally Posted by Khozinsky

I think, Europe is not interested in "birth" of new imperial monster on the east borders of the continent. And we, Russians, are not interested in it too. So we should (and can) help each other

Sounds good to me. My only fear is that the people who did so well in the Yeltsin years seem to be trying to get outsiders to bring down the current government in order to get back to raping the Russian economy.

[Khozinsky]

Originally Posted by Errigal

My only fear is that the people who did so well in the Yeltsin years seem to be trying to get outsiders to bring down the current government in order to get back to raping the Russian economy.

Hmmm...I do not understand you. Which people?

[Errigal]

Originally Posted by Khozinsky

Hmmm...I do not understand you. Which people?

I was thinking of the exiled oligarchs like Boris Berezovsky.

[Khozinsky]

Originally Posted by Errigal

I was thinking of the exiled oligarchs like Boris Berezovsky.

No, he's not interested in financing nationalist ideas in Russia, even if they can help to bring down government of Putin. He worked (I mean - paid ) only with liberals, as I know.

[Errigal]

Originally Posted by Khozinsky

No, he's not interested in financing nationalist ideas in Russia, even if they can help to bring down government of Putin. He worked (I mean - paid ) only with liberals, as I know.

I was thinking more if a constitutional crisis happened in Russia those who could benefit most are outsiders with wealthy and powerful friends in London, New York and Washington. So Russian nationalists may cause a crisis which is exploited by others; like the Provisional Government being pushed aside by the Bolsheviks in 1917.

[Khozinsky]

Originally Posted by Errigal

I was thinking more if a constitutional crisis happened in Russia those who could benefit most are outsiders with wealthy and powerful friends in London, New York and Washington. So Russian nationalists may cause a crisis which is exploited by others; like the Provisional Government being pushed aside by the Bolsheviks in 1917.

Please, do not compare Russian nationalism with bolshevism. The situation now and in 1917 is different.

And, as I've already said, we should do anything - just because we can not sit quietly and wait, until the last Russian will die or mix with Asiats. We can try to change situation or we can go like cattle to slaughterhouse of putinism. We can be sacrificed for one more imperial project (like more than 20 mln Russians died [killed!] in GULAG for building "wonderful communist future", or like many thousands of Russian guys, died in Chechnya for saving unity of anti-Russian empire) or we can try to change our present and future. And even if we die trying - it'll be better than current situation of degradation and "slow death" of our people.

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by Khozinsky

These Russian states will not be more vulnerable for outsiders as modern "Russia". They will be truely Russian states with nationalism as state ideology.

I don't mean to sound picky, but I should point that nationalism is not and ideology per se. Nationalism is an idea or rather, an ideal to which certain ideologies subscribe, or around which ideologies are built.

I know that this may sound to many like a small detail, and it is probably very small in the context of this argument. But it becomes important when one has to define a political proposal based on nationalism.

As for me - I prefer small, bur really Russian state, with 5-10 mln of Russians (European Russians!!!), than huge Empire with Tatars, Chechenians etc., with asiatic mentality, dirty cities, ethnic mafies, impudent officials, total degeneration.

I presume that the figure of "5-10 million Russians" for an ethnic/national state was only to give an example, for which you didn't take into account the real or the approximate numbers of ethnic Russians. I mean, obviously there are much more than just 10 million [ethnic] Russians!

Hold it! I'm afraid that I hadn't read well the following paragraph..

I hope, there will be many Russian states, so everyone will be able to choose, where to live - in nothern states with people democracy and national-liberalist ideology or in southern states with their traditions of Cossacks government.

Now this is interesting. May I presume that you are talking of some "Russianism" based on an idea of the "Russias" as different to "Russia"?

Please, correct me if I'm wrong. I believe that it was Ivan IV, The Terrible, the first in being named Czar of all Russias. This was after he drove the Tatars and Mongols away and united all of the Russian principalities under an imperial monarchy. Could we speak of a tradition in the spirit of the Russias vs the one Russia?

Needless to say, the concept went astray when new conquered territories which were non ethnic Russian were incorporated into this idea of the Russias. It is from that point onwards that the name Russian starts to acquire a double significance, to define an ethnic Russian and also a subject of the Russian Empire, creating thus a confussion.

Another point, you say "democracy" and "national-liberalist ideology". Liberalism, as defined in modern days, is incompatible with nationalism stricto sensu. The nationalism sometimes waved by liberals is a deceit. And well, democracy? Whatever.. I'm not a big fan of democracy either, unless it is defined in terms different to those understood in modern times.

Anyway, we should try change the current situation, because more 10-15 years of putinism - and our people will be lost (f.e.,number of ethnic Russians in Putinland reduces by million a year). After these 15 years Russians will look like Chinesians (and think like Chinesians - and this is the worst!) and there won't be hope to revive our national identity and to build national Russian state(s) with nationalist Russian government. Russia will finally turn into in-national asiatic empire, just like USSR, where were no nations and nationalities, only united "soviet nation".

Not that the fate reserved to the rest of the nations of Europe looks any better. And this is why the idea of Europeanism becomes so importance for Nationalism.

I think, Europe is not interested in "birth" of new imperial monster on the east borders of the continent. And we, Russians, are not interested in it too. So we should (and can) help each other

ditto (above)

Originally Posted by Khozinsky

Please, do not compare Russian nationalism with bolshevism. The situation now and in 1917 is different.

And, as I've already said, we should do anything - just because we can not sit quietly and wait, until the last Russian will die or mix with Asiats. We can try to change situation or we can go like cattle to slaughterhouse of putinism. We can be sacrificed for one more imperial project (like more than 20 mln Russians died [killed!] in GULAG for building "wonderful communist future", or like many thousands of Russian guys, died in Chechnya for saving unity of anti-Russian empire) or we can try to change our present and future. And even if we die trying - it'll be better than current situation of degradation and "slow death" of our people.

Speaking of liberalism, what you call putinism I'm afraid that it is Russia's self-style neo-liberalism.


p.s. Errigan, when dealing with Russia in terms of politicians, one must be very careful and not forget that you are going to meet ex-KGB elements even there where you wouldn't expect to find any.

The issue is complex, even for the Spaniards who lived something similar (save the differences) in Spain after the death of General Franco. Of course the scale of it makes a big difference for Russia. And, unlike in Spain where the power of Presidencia (Admiral Carrero Blanco's secret services) went dying out and was heavily transformed, and the elements in the patriotic movement linked to these secret services were eventually dropped out for the most part, in Russia the KGB has not suffered a different transformation.

[svin]

Well, 5-10 millions is sure not real number of Russians. But, I like the idea of the federation of Russian states, because obviously our territory is too big and we need decentralized government.