Hungarian types

[Linus]

By István Kiszely from his book "A föld népei".



East Baltic



Osteuropid+Alpinid




Osteuropid


1. Pontid
2. Cromagnid


1. Osteuropid
2. Dinarid


Pontid+Osteuropid


1. Lappoid
2. Alpinid+Osteuropid


Dinarid


East Baltic+Osteuropid


1. East Baltic+Osteuropid
2. Nordid+East Baltic



Armenid


1. Aralid
2./3. Osteuropid


1. East Baltic
2. East-Baltic+Alpinid


Lappoid

The classifications were allegedly made by Kiszely but it's only a second-hand information first provided by someone else than me at Dodona.

Also have a look at these topics for further info:
My basic classification system for Europids (A description of two East Baltic subtypes distinguished by Lundman).
Saami and Finns (the Saami and Finland)
http://forum.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=7422 (Mordvinians)

Originally Posted by lg

A summary and partial translation of: A MAGYAR EMBER

--

The Hungarian people have 3 points of origin: 1. The people prior to the 894-895 AD conquering Magyar tribes such as Scythians, Sarmatians, Huns and Avars. 2. The Turkic honfoglalás Magyars who numbered 500,000. 3. The Jász, Pechenegs, Bulgars, Saxons, Slovaks, Swabians, Serbians.

..In Hungary the first authentic graves of 895-1000 AD Magyars were found...


(An artist's reconstruction and skull of a Honfoglalás Magyar man)

..In 1834 in Kecskemét 700 "authentic" Sarmatian skeletons were unearthed...

..The Honfoglalás Magyar men were on average 1.69m tall, the women were 1.58m. The average age of mortality for adults was 34 years. 60% of the skeletons were found to be under 16 years old..

The Hungarians are noted for the unique phenomenon of "Eastern vitalization" however the Hungarians are partly of the Bulgar, Jász, Pecheneg, and the indigenous people supplied a population surge. The Hungarians' representitive subracial types of the Honfoglalás past and even today are the following:

1. Turáni or turanid type. (Men 165-167 cm, women small & a little squattish. The broad cheek, the zygomatics protruding, the nose bridge flat, the eye socket small, the eyes a little wide spaced with a slanted look, the eyes blackish. Of the young children occurs "mongoloid fold." The mouth is small, the head is brachycephalic. The occiput weakly raised. Hair strands are thick, coarse, flat and hair is full. The hair is blackish-dark brown in color. The type is aboriginal to Eastern Turkistan (The heart of Asia). The type belongs to the West of the Carpathian Basin (North and South) not from elsewhere. Anthropologist Lajos Bartucz determined the occurance place of the later Magyar version of this type, the Alföldi (Homo pannonicus) is called the "Turkic Hungarian type." The occurance of this type nationally is 30-35%. Anthropologist Lajos Bartucz wrote: "the Alföldi type you can say most correctly is the "Magyar type", since its frequency is the most numerous and is exactly the same type going back to the Honfoglalás."


Turanid type Hungarian girl


Hungarian woman belonging to the Alföldi type

2. Pamiri (pamiro-ferghana, Central Asian, a fluid type or Anatolian) type found in Pamir country, Tien-san, the Altai, Central Asia together with the Iranic lands. The racial type belongs to Kazakh inner-Asiatic and among the population of Carpathian Basin the origin is with Huns, Avars and partially with Árpád's Magyars. The Hungarians of the Alföld (Plains) are typically of this type, so-called "scraggy-faced peasants." Of the Carpathian Basin residents 10-15% are towards this type. The stature is larger than the previous type, the men are 170cm and over. The build is usually thin and lanky, the head relatively small. The occiput is usually flat, the face long, the nose projects considerably from the face as a rule is straight. The zygomatics are robustly built, the complexion color is dark. The hair is greasy, rough to the touch, individual strands are thin and abundant.

3. Taurid ("Caucausian") type originates partially from the Turk, partially the Scythian, Samartian- and Jász people; the Magyars and Huns from then on the Avar royals and via the early Honfoglalás Magyars 5-8% frequency is found, but among the Lesser Kumanians and around the Baja area 14% is present. The type is originated from Near Asia, the Caucasus, the old Mesopotamia and Persia, also the Iranic world. The porportions of the body are medium, the men's average height is 160-166 cm, but also substantially taller. The head is bracycephalic and large, the forehead of middle width, the occiput small and to a degree flat, the face of medium length, the zyomatics laterally a little protruding, downwards narrower, the nose is of medim thickness, large, convex and projects from the face strongly. The nasal root and nose bridge of medium width, the nasal tip is mostly curved, the eyes are small relatively, the large sized ears frequently protruding. The eye and hair color is dark brown - black, the skin swarthy brown, the hair strands are coarse, straight, notched, or a little crispy, the bodyhair strongly developed, the beard and the eyebrows abundant.

4. East Baltic or East European type is thereof Eastern European aboriginal origin, which the old Magyars, the Hungarians, then the Bulgars, the Kumanians and the Jász also brought. While it is not typical of the ancient Hungarians, the Ledvedian and legendary home territory the people of the folks, it originated by either through truly mixing or was original to the Magyar folk. Gyula Benczur portrayed the type "of the Magyars" and said these professionally inaccurate cliches: "neither blond, nor brown, the pale, dull-skinned Hungarian racial type." For that reason the "blunt" East-Baltic element was strongly mixed from the East. The build is squattish ("compact"), the men's average height historically was 163-165 cm, though often taller. The head of medium length, the face of medium width, oily but not homely laterally protruding zygomatics. The eyes on the face look small, but the eyesockets are comparatively in the large range. The skin complexion is transparent; the eyes greyish-blue ("water-colored"), the hair ash-blond,among children white-blond, the hair is notched stiff, coarse strands. The face in old age becomes wrinkled. Occurances of 8-10% are defined, but in Palócföld due to the Slavs' apparent mixture with them they have attained the 35% frequency. The East Baltic is a specific type or a variation of the Pontic type.


An East Baltic type Hungarian girl


Gyula Benczur portrays the East Baltic as typical "Hungarian man"

5. Uralic or Ugor type representative of the Finno-Ugrian people; the ancient origin is the area between the Ural and the Sayan mountians. As Hungarian primary sources occuring only of the 10th Century may substantiate, frequency anciently and now is 0,6%, which is endorsement that the Magyars likely via Finno-Ugrian culture formed territories, but ethnically not playing a part, and were formed by the native population; the search for the ancient Magyar homeland between the Finno-Ugrian folk is unscientific. Of the Hungarians there is a seldom frequency of "mongoloid" elements in attendance of the representative type.

The types above were "brought from the east" and the Carpathian Basin carries types found absolutely "throughout Europe": racially the cromagnonid, the Mediterranean, the Nordic, the Alpine, the Borreby, etc. types are all represented.

--

I'll translate the rest of it some other time.

This one is a bit diffused:

Originally Posted by torrent

In the Hungarian period of settlement we already become aware of the presence of a new physical type associated with the Turks, who formed a minority in the ranks of the Magyars. When we examine the crania of the Petchenegs and Kumans, in both Hungary and Russia21 we see that this new type has become the dominant one among these later Turks to arrive in eastern Europe. In it mongoloid features are sometimes present, but in abeyance. The skulls are very large, of moderate height, extremely brachycephalic, and planoccipital. The foreheads are sloping, browridges sometimes heavy, the faces are very broad, and also very long. The orbits are of moderate height. The noses are narrow, and although often low at the root, frequently project at the bridge, giving indication of a convex profile in the living.

These Kuman skulls, as best represented by Debetz's series which includes fourteen adult males, are much longer and broader than historic Armenian skulls,22 and both longer and broader faced. In height, nose and orbit dimensions, and the tendency to occipital flattening, these two groups are the same. They are also larger than Alpine skulls from central Europe, and far greater in facial dimensions; larger too, than the type B mongoloid crania as represented by a large series of central Asiatic Telengets; much higher vaulted and broader of forehead than the latter, and even a little larger faced.

Thus, the type under consideration, which has become in many regions the characteristic Turkish form, is one which cannot be disposed of by the simple expedient of placing it in an Armenoid or Dinaric category. In size and proportions of the vault, the closest parallel to these skulls is with the British Bronze Age crania; but the resemblance here is far from an identity, for the British faces, although equally broad, are much shorter. In the same sense, the Turkish skulls are reminiscent of the Palaeolithic and Mesolithic brachycephalic types from Europe and North Africa.

there are other type of turks iranoafgan type, pontids, mongols aralid, pamirid(true many turks are pamirid)

They are purely dolichocephalic, with a cranial index of 71.7. On the whole, they are just what one would expect from a Danish Iron Age - Upper Palaeolithic cross, with the latter in the majority, and this explanation agrees well with the archaeological data. The stature, 169.5 cm., fits both types. There is another possibility, however, that they had a strong Corded element. That some Corded blend entered into this mixture was indeed likely, but it is impossible to substitute the Corded for the Palaeolithic element, since the high vault of the former is not in sufficient evidence, and the faces of the Norwegians are wider than either Corded or Nordic.

[Fantom]

What is "Osteuropid" type?

[Agrippa]

Originally Posted by Fantom

What is "Osteuropid" type?

I wonder about that too because usually Eastbaltid is included in Osteuropid - here the "Osteuropid" are rather heteregenous (mostly Eastalpinid, Westbaltid, less extreme Eastbaltid to me) whereas the Eastbaltids are really extreme, mostly almost Lappoid looking individuals - similar to what Günther has shown as Eastbaltid/"ostbaltisch" in his works.

Very nice examples though.

[Bulair]

The reconstruction of the skull looks almost like a Han Chinese, I doubt the magyars looked anything similar to this.The Alföldi type also seems very strange, does anyone have more examples of it?And are the numbers correct 30-35%?

[Exeter]

http://img270.imageshack.us/my.php?i...ear00014wd.jpg

They have both a strong Kumid (low-skulled Central Asiatic Mongoloid) element. The first more so. I am pretty sure that their type is of some Turkic origin.

The Pontids and Dinarids are good examples.

Have you never been in Hungary? There are for sure such Hungarians. But those are not the only types found in Hungary.

Hungary is one of the most heterogenous European countries. It is still quite easy to recognise a Hungarian if you have ever been there. There are certain faces in Hungary that I doubt you can see anywhere else in Europe.

Originally Posted by Bulair

The reconstruction of the skull looks almost like a Han Chinese, I doubt the magyars looked anything similar to this.The Alföldi type also seems very strange, does anyone have more examples of it?And are the numbers correct 30-35%?

[vertamocoro]

When I think of a hungarian woman, I think of her.

[Exeter]

Many Hungarian women use a lot of makeup. It is hard to tell her real look. Do you have more pictures of her?

Originally Posted by vertamocoro

When I think of a hungarian woman, I think of her.

[vertamocoro]

Ilona Staller, aka Cicciolina, famous pornostar, and most likely the first one sitting in a parliament.

[Weisthor]

I posted Bartucz's estimated proportion of Races in Hugary, some time ago on this Forum; and then, I think, explained possible political inclination of his work.

Subracial distribution according to Eikstedt

HUNGARY

1. Turanid race (or the race of the lowlands): 25-30 %
2. East-Baltic race: 20 %
3. Dinaric race: 20 %
4. Alpine race: 15 %
5. Armenid race: 4-5 %
6. Mongol tribes (?): 4-5 %
7. Nordic race: 4 %
8. Mediterranean race and other diverse races: 1 %

Source: Bartucz Lajos: "Fajkeredes fajkutatas" (The race problem and racial researches), Budapest 1941, Royal Hungarian University Press.

[Linus]

Here's something from Coon I came over about Hunnish and Avar types:

Bartucz finds two clearly differentiated mongoloid types in these cemeteries. The first, which he designates as type A, is dolicho- to mesocephalic with a mean index of 75.5 for the males and 77.0 for the females. These skulls are of great length and considerable size. The forehead is very narrow, the temples sharply curved, and the zygomatic arches laterally bowed. The occiput is narrow and conical at the end. From the side profile, the forehead appears exceptionally low and slanting. The vertex falls well back of bregma, and the profile is curved through the extent of its length. In the occipital region the line of neck muscle attachment forms a powerful torus.

The vault of this type is lower than that found in any European group. It is, in fact, near the low point for mankind, with a range in height from 120 to 130 mm. The browridges, accentuated by the extreme slope of the forehead, are heavy, but the glabella region is flat, the orbits are rounded, and with the lower border often projecting farther forward than the upper. The nasal bones are long, narrow, and flat; so that the nasal skeleton sometimes fails to project in front of the malars. The lower borders of the nasal opening are smoothly rounded. The malars are extremely large and prominent, the canine fossa completely lacking, and the maxillary sinus, which overlies it, is so blown out that the surface of the bone is at this point often raised. The dental arch of the palate is U-shaped. The mandible is heavy, but the chin, however, but slightly developed. The whole sub-nasal portion of the face is enormous. The stature of this type, calculated from the long bones, is 164.4 cm. for the males, 153.1 cm. for the females.

Type B is also purely mongoloid, but it is brachycephalic, with a mean index of 83 for both sexes. The forehead is also low, but much broader and more sharply curved, the occiput is rounded and broad, and the skull as a whole is globular, although the vault is still low. The face is broad and low, the orbits are lower, the nose less leptorrhine, the malars and zygomata less pronouncedly mongoloid, than in the case of type A. The nasal bones are shorter, the palate broader and rounder, the chin more prominent. This type is characterized by shorter stature; 160.9 cm. for the males, and 152.8 cm. for the females.

On Hungarians:

In the Hungarian period of settlement we already become aware of the presence of a new physical type associated with the Turks, who formed a minority in the ranks of the Magyars. When we examine the crania of the Petchenegs and Kumans, in both Hungary and Russia21 we see that this new type has become the dominant one among these later Turks to arrive in eastern Europe. In it mongoloid features are sometimes present, but in abeyance. The skulls are very large, of moderate height, extremely brachycephalic, and planoccipital. The foreheads are sloping, browridges sometimes heavy, the faces are very broad, and also very long. The orbits are of moderate height. The noses are narrow, and although often low at the root, frequently project at the bridge, giving indication of a convex profile in the living.

These Kuman skulls, as best represented by Debetz's series which includes fourteen adult males, are much longer and broader than historic Armenian skulls and both longer and broader faced. In height, nose and orbit dimensions, and the tendency to occipital flattening, these two groups are the same. They are also larger than Alpine skulls from central Europe, and far greater in facial dimensions; larger too, than the type B mongoloid crania as represented by a large series of central Asiatic Telengets; much higher vaulted and broader of forehead than the latter, and even a little larger faced.

Thus, the type under consideration, which has become in many regions the characteristic Turkish form, is one which cannot be disposed of by the simple expedient of placing it in an Armenoid or Dinaric category. In size and proportions of the vault, the closest parallel to these skulls is with the British Bronze Age crania; but the resemblance here is far from an identity, for the British faces, although equally broad, are much shorter. In the same sense, the Turkish skulls are reminiscent of the Palaeolithic and Mesolithic brachycephalic types from Europe and North Africa.

[TiCon]

I think it is hard to classify a people on pics. Among every ethnicy there are different kind of types, yet the subject is interesting. There are many Hungarians with typical non-European features, then again there are Nordics among them aswell.

Some more pics of Hungarians:

[TiCon]

And final, some more:

[Krisznyo]

Hello
Im Kristian,hungarian,I'v just read these comments about the theme.As a hungarian,member of a highly-mixed nation,i also bear pretty various race features.The "alfoldi"(wich means people from the hungarian plain) type is very characteristic of our nation,we all have relatives who look like that.I've got many realtives(they all from the above mentioned area),represent this easily recognizable type of hungarian.Kumans,mainly came to the plain lands,as they were nomads,needed a wide area for their life style.And they werent the only asian,nomad nation that came and joind to the hungarian nation community those days.As a conclusion,i would say the hungarian "alfoldi" type is mostly influenced by the originally middle-asian kumans,besenyo(petchang as you call them),jazig and other tribes.They were turk nations,except jazigs,they were iranians.A nother question is the original hungarians' race type.They werent homogen.The archeology findings tell us uralid,turk,mongolid,baltid,nordoid,taurid elements.But one thing for sure,hungarians bear very typical features up to the present.

[Krisznyo]

Magyars looked like that?They still do!