Uralic peoples

[Aleksander D.G.]

Hey Fin Dont Forget that You people have your culture pretty Much thanks to us You were Bing turned into Sweeds Until we Came along and gave you freedom we let you return to your language and your traditions when By all rights we Could Have forced Russian Language and culture on you

[Routasydän]

Originally Posted by Aleksander D.G.

Hey Fin Dont Forget that You people have your culture pretty Much thanks to us You were Bing turned into Sweeds Until we Came along and gave you freedom we let you return to your language and your traditions when By all rights we Could Have forced Russian Language and culture on you

Heh, as a history enthusiast I am well aware about the cultural impacts of autonomy (which did not come about because of Russian kind-heartedness, there was something to be gained, obviously). The way you use 'you' and 'us' is a bit misleading though, because the shape and form of Russia has changed so much. The very freedom (which was freedom as long a the tsar digged it) that was granted after 1809 was basically taken away in 1890-1917, when 'you' did try to force your language and culture on 'us', which 'you' never had the "right" to do under any circumstances anyway. I don't quite see the connection though, are all the russian-oppressed peoples supposed to be eternally greatful when the Russians did something good for them, once, a couple of centuries ago?
So yeah, Alexander II is remembered as 'the good tsar' here, but that doesn't mean Finns or Balts are very much down with the whole Stalin-thing.

Trying to portray Russia as the innocent victim of Baltic and Finnic violence just doesn't sound convincing, mate

PS. Its "Finn", not Fin, and "Swede", not Sweed.

[Vesainen]

Another Finnjävel comments:
Heh, this somewhat peculiar mockery, egoboosting or whatever still seems to live strong.


A few guidelines regarding any study that should always be remembered:


http://insti.physics.sunysb.edu/%7Esiegel/quack.html


http://www.quackwatch.org/


http://www.chem1.com/acad/sci/pseudosci.html



Those being just futile sidenotes anyway...



Well, if you stopped for a second to take a deep breath and actually take a few glances at the odds our nation/folk has coped with and turned out I´m sure you will agree that there´s hardly anything we as a nation/folk should feel neither ashamed nor "grateful" of.

I find the words of a to be executed Finnish POW in the hands of the soviets quite enlightening "If we were as numerous as you Russians we had taken the world long ago". [Narrator, private I.A.Usanov comments: "He spoke Russian with a heavy accent, but swore almost perfectly." Viktor Stepakov, 1996]


Fortunately, I know enough decent Russians by first hand to not call all of
you lot russkies, but if you´ve already fixed your mind to a war with us for whatever reason, then I can´t help it. Maybe you yearn for another match-up? Nähdäänkö siis, Ryssä taas itärintamalla? Cheers.

[Aleksander D.G.]

Where Have I portrayed Russia as an Victim of Baltics or Finland ?

Frankly Lets Face it You Folks Cant Realy Do any Major Damage On your Own or even Allied Together.
And Besides In My eyes Finland Has for the Most Part been an ok neighbor

Baltic countries are Something Completly Different

Getting Back to the Subject I dont expect anyone to Be eternaly greatfull too anyone its Just not Human Nature But before You start Bad Mouthing Somone You Should Remmember the Good things that Came from that Person

I am well aware about the cultural impacts of autonomy (which did not come about because of Russian kind-heartedness, there was something to be gained, obviously).

Nothing IS EVER done because of kind-heartedness For every action there will always Be gains and Losses But Concider this We Could Have the Same Gains and Losses If the Tsar desided to do the Opposite Thing

The very freedom (which was freedom as long a the tsar digged it) that was granted after 1809 was basically taken away in 1890-1917, when 'you' did try to force your language and culture on 'us', which 'you' never had the "right" to do under any circumstances anyway.

It wasnt RIGHT to Do But We had every right to do so

but that doesn't mean Finns or Balts are very much down with the whole Stalin-thing.

Stalin was a georgian jew at the Top of a Jewish empire it was Not Russia Nor were Russians in Charge

[Routasydän]

Originally Posted by Aleksander D.G.

Where Have I portrayed Russia as an Victim of Baltics or Finland ?

here

Germans Poles and their Baltic allies attacked Russians from the west so we retaliated. Swedes with Finns attacked Russia from the North so we counter attacked and took Finland.

Frankly Lets Face it You Folks Cant Realy Do any Major Damage On your Own or even Allied Together.
And Besides In My eyes Finland Has for the Most Part been an ok neighbor

All I care for is the capability to defend ourself. I, along with 99% of Finns are not bent on doing any major damage against anyone.

Baltic countries are Something Completly Different

Well they are understandably pissed for 50 years of murder, deportation and oppression, the destruction of their culture and importing a vast number of foreingers in who are unwilling and incapable of respecting and adapting to their culture. Instead, after soviet rule, they are left wondering where their state-provided jobs disappearead. They make up for it by committing over 50% of the crimes in Estonia, for example. A completely disproportionate number.

Getting Back to the Subject I dont expect anyone to Be eternaly greatfull too anyone its Just not Human Nature But before You start Bad Mouthing Somone You Should Remmember the Good things that Came from that Person

As I said, we dig Alexander II, not Nikolai II or Stalin or most of the other people who have ruled Russia.

Nothing IS EVER done because of kind-heartedness For every action there will always Be gains and Losses But Concider this We Could Have the Same Gains and Losses If the Tsar desided to do the Opposite Thing

So then I should be grateful that the situation that made the tsar do the most sensible thing? Then I really shouldn't be grateful to the tsar but to whatever that brought about those circumstances.

The reason Finnish culture was encouraged and supported was that Russia wanted to drive a wedge between Sweden and Finland by encouraging Finland to be unique. Had they begun heavy handed Russification, they might have had another Poland on their hands.

It wasnt RIGHT to Do But We had every right to do so

You call yourself a nationalist but think the Russians have a right to destroy other cultures?

Stalin was a georgian jew at the Top of a Jewish empire it was Not Russia Nor were Russians in Charge

Interesting theory, but I think I'll just put it next to the other Zionist conspiracy theories. Actually, it looks about excellent next to Mein Kampf there.

[Aleksander D.G.]

here

Note it wasnt me Stating that

All I care for is the capability to defend ourself. I, along with 99% of Finns are not bent on doing any major damage against anyone.

I dont think Finland Has the Capability to succesfuly Deffend itself From Russia But that doesnt Matter this isnt what we are talking about

Well they are understandably pissed for 50 years of murder, deportation and oppression, the destruction of their culture and importing a vast number of foreingers in who are unwilling and incapable of respecting and adapting to their culture. Instead, after soviet rule, they are left wondering where their state-provided jobs disappearead. They make up for it by committing over 50% of the crimes in Estonia, for example. A completely disproportionate number.

Soviet Union made the Baltic States republics upon requests of Baltic Communists They have no one to blame but themselfs

As I said, we dig Alexander II, not Nikolai II or Stalin or most of the other people who have ruled Russia.

your Oppinion But its Irrelevant anyway Since you are not a Russian Citizen

So then I should be grateful that the situation that made the tsar do the most sensible thing? Then I really shouldn't be grateful to the tsar but to whatever that brought about those circumstances.

The reason Finnish culture was encouraged and supported was that Russia wanted to drive a wedge between Sweden and Finland by encouraging Finland to be unique. Had they begun heavy handed Russification, they might have had another Poland on their hands.

Pushing Russian Culture on Finland would Have accomplished the Same goal It doesnt Matter

You call yourself a nationalist but think the Russians have a right to destroy other cultures?

In a conflict the Winning side Has the Right to Do absolutly anything be it the right thing or the wrong thing but the winning side still has the right to do it

Interesting theory, but I think I'll just put it next to the other Zionist conspiracy theories. Actually, it looks about excellent next to Mein Kampf there.

You dont have to belive the Truth you can just ignore the facts and belive what you want to belive

[Routasydän]

Soviet Union made the Baltic States republics upon requests of Baltic Communists They have no one to blame but themselfs

Yes, by fringe groups. Doesn't mean it was ok to overthrow the goverment and annex them. Do they teach this in Russian schools? The Estonian communist leader committed suicide upon seeing how the Soviets had abused his idealism (IIRC).

your Oppinion But its Irrelevant anyway Since you are not a Russian Citizen

That's not a very good argument when debating. Besides I would think that my opinion is relevant when discussing how we Finns and Balts feel about Russia, its history and its rulers. Don't you? You really have to get over the fact that Russia isn't telling us what to think anymore.

Pushing Russian Culture on Finland would Have accomplished the Same goal It doesnt Matter

It most certainly would not have had the same effect. We saw this during the period of Russification. We were some of the best Subjects of the Grand Duke (the Tsar) until the Russification policies. This is history, not opinion.

In a conflict the Winning side Has the Right to Do absolutly anything be it the right thing or the wrong thing but the winning side still has the right to do it

Yes, it has become apparent to me that many Russians see it this way. I however think that the winning side has an obligation and a responsibility towards beaten party.

You dont have to belive the Truth you can just ignore the facts and belive what you want to belive

Indeed. Likewise.

Originally Posted by Rusalka

According to most anthropological data, they are thought to, yes.

Karelians:


Another Uralic speaking people, the Nenets, living in and around the area of Arkhangelsk:


A Finno-Ugric speaking group, the Khanty-Mansi. Khanty and Mansi are two seperate languages closely related to each other (could be even called "dialects") and are kin to Hungarian and Finnish:


Likewise, Maris, Komis and Mordvins all speak Finno-Ugric languages and considered to have significant Mongoloid traits (those to the Northeast more so than others.)

The Chuvash on the other hand are of the Turkic language family and are considered to be kin to Tatars etc. Unlike most other Turkic groups they are Orthodox Christians (and thus, probably "White" )

The east-baltids are not mongoloids, they are caucasoids.

[Vesainen]

Originally Posted by Aleksander D.G.

In a conflict the Winning side Has the Right to Do absolutly anything be it the right thing or the wrong thing but the winning side still has the right to do it

Damn, you must hug Lenins glassbox on a daily basis, huh?
This is one thing I´ve never understood: Instead of managing own
set of affairs to a level of content some miraculous outer threat is
a must to invoke so no-one would be forced to look at the ugly image
that stares back from the mirror but a terrible fascist threat or something
else that, like recently, is "attempting to take control of our energy sources"
or whatever.

Doesn´t sound too afar from Libyan behaviour we´ve seen lately.

[Numi]

Originally Posted by Theoden

I believe that these people are either Udmurt or Mordvins







These people are Komi



Komi pagan leader

that man isn't Komi at all..as I'm Komi myself,I'd like to mention the fact we don't wear such clothes..and we never wore anythig like that.Btw,his face doesn't like like he's Komi-he's too dark haired and looks rather like a Chechen

[Carnyx]

But a Chechen would lead a Komi celebration?

[Numi]

Originally Posted by Carnyx

But a Chechen would lead a Komi celebration?

How? never..I guess he's the Urals' Cossack(they are the only Russian group wearing such a clothing),but not Komi.And we have no Religious leaders.We're mostly Orthodox by now.

[Carnyx]

Originally Posted by Numi

How? never..I guess he's the Urals' Cossack(they are the only Russian group wearing such a clothing),but not Komi.And we have no Religious leaders.We're mostly Orthodox by now.

Alright. So this is not a pagan celebration.

[Numi]

Originally Posted by Carnyx

Alright. So this is not a pagan celebration.

Sorry,I just saw a phrase behind that man and it was in Chuvash,so he's a Chuvash that explains everything to me-his strange appearance for Komis and his clothing

[Carnyx]

Originally Posted by Numi

Sorry,I just saw a phrase behind that man and it was in Chuvash,so he's a Chuvash that explains everything to me-his strange appearance for Komis and his clothing

I see. They are quite mysterious peoples. We needed to clarify that. Welcome on Stirpes, anyway.

[Berrocscir]

Daft question - so can the Uralic peoples as a whole be considered european in the wider sense? I watched a very good documentary on the Nenets last night and found it curious as some of them looked distinctly mongoloid, while others, particularly women, appeared 'european'.