Kosovo conflict

[Awar]

We'll see...

btw. in the future, if anyone has any complaints, suggestions etc. about the forum or its members and moderators, please be so kind to lay them out in the appropriate section.

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by Awar

I'm not trigger-happy when it comes to banning.

You may not be, but I am in this case. Did you wave him good-bye?

http://forum.stirpes.net/showpost.ph...3&postcount=17

[Archangelos]

Does anyone know when the west is pushing for independence for Kosovo? Such a move will cause another war, im wondering if the UCK will attempt to cause the war to spread to FYROM and Greece.

[Awar]

It won't cause another war IMO. Except perhaps in FYROM.
The west will keep Greece intact for as long as it needs it to be that way.
Which might be centuries, or months

[Archangelos]

Do you really think the West will be able to control the UCK and Albanian Mafia, when the move for indepedence for Kosovo happens? Ive read reports of UCK attacks on NATO troops as soon as the war ended the first time. Do you think they will really listen if the World powers say, Leave Greece alone?

[Awar]

If they REALLY say it, then, yes.

[Spartadux]

Originally Posted by Archangelos

Do you really think the West will be able to control the UCK and Albanian Mafia, when the move for indepedence for Kosovo happens? Ive read reports of UCK attacks on NATO troops as soon as the war ended the first time. Do you think they will really listen if the World powers say, Leave Greece alone?

UCK is a creature of NATO politic, and if they are now in argue is just for heroin prices disagreement, they will reach a Treaty about don't worry!

[Theobald]

Kosovo belongs to Serbia, of course.
I think that Albanians have nothing to do in Europe, they are Turkey's lackeys, and moreover Muslims. And by the way they are drug-dealers and procurers in our Western countries.

[damjan]

1st on what grounds does kosovo belong to serbia in other words how does one get ownership to the land?


and to the crussador with gladiators pic in it how is albania/albanians related to the islamic threat?

[Vojvoda]

Originally Posted by damjan

1st on what grounds does kosovo belong to serbia in other words how does one get ownership to the land?

On what grounds does it belong to Albanians or Albania? The ethnic Albanians played the "Brotherhood and Unity" card just as well as the other former Yugoslav ethnicites and Republics.Tito gave them every priviledge, every right possible; media,schools etc. the same as the Hungarian minority in Vojvodina. but it wasn't until the death of Tito when things started to change, the uprisings and protests for their own Republic in Yugoslavia.Serbs were intimidated by other Kosovars for seven years to leave Kosovo and many did until an unknown politican by the name of Slobodan Milosevic "went nuts" while visiting the Serbs there in 1987 uttering those infamous words, "Nobody may beat you anymore".

[Awar]

Damjan. Do you think that parts of Albania where ethnic Greeks live should be handed over to Greece? Using your logic, it should be.

Every country in the world has at least one area where the majority of people are not the same as the founding nation of that country. So, what?

Freedom and respect, always, but, secession and treason... that's not something you'd want to promote on this forum. ( besides, it's obvious where all this struggle over pieces of land has brought Balkan nations ).

[Dr. Solar Wolff]

The Kosovo conflict was a milestone for my country. President Clinton picked a side and began a propaganda campaign to justify it. Then, he went ahead and started bombing Serbia with resulted in the deaths of up to 10,000 Serbs.

The propaganda campaign rested on accusing Slobodon Milosovic of genocide against the Kosovars. This statement was repeated and encouraged by our mass media. Eventually, it became the truth in a 1984-type turn of events. Just before the war a network anchor-person interviewed Mrs. Milosovic and asked her, point blank, if genocide was going on there. She looked this TV person straight in the eye and said "no". This was used from this point on in the US to say that she was a liar and we have to go in and bomb.

Well, later, after the war, no mass graves were found. No charge of genocide could at least be proven. Nobody in the USA cared or even remembered why we had done what we had done. If you ask people today who even remember, they will say there was genocide going on and we were justified in bombing.

I am sure, dead certain, that Europeans know that Clinton had no idea of the issues in Kosovo or anywhere else in the Balkans. I have no idea. I do know that Bismark, for one, steered clear of the Balkans because it is such a complex subject.

For the US militarists and Neo-cons, Kosovo was a great excercise. It taught them that the American people can easlily be influenced with a little propaganda and some lies. This is very important because this is exactly what happened, again, in Iraq. The real purpose behind all this, of course, is the willingness of the USA to shed its blood for Isreal (that is always the prime directive of US foreign policy). Both Kosovo and Iraq were excercises in mobilization of American public opinion so that we would know how to do it should we need to assist Israel.

[Rusalka]

Just my 2 cents on the subject, I find it rather irrelevant to base our biases on religion. It is a well known fact that the Catholics and Orthodox Christians were at each others' throats only quite recently and treated the other side as an abomination. Most of the time Catholic countries like France allied with the Ottoman Empire rather than allying with Austria-Hungary as it was getting rather too powerful; or Britain, a country they had been fighting with for over hundreds of years. I don't think religion plays a part as religion itself; it is only used as a propaganda tool, and most of the time it works very well. It's true that some of the fighting that's going on and has gone on in the Balkans now and in the recent past was thanks to the Ottoman Empire's policy of "divide and rule" (which they no doubt borrowed from the English). Bosnia and Albania are two good examples of it. I guess they never actually bothered about what would happen if they were to leave these groups on their own. Well, now we know. The Balkans had been waiting to explode for a long time and they finally did -starting in the late 19th and early 20th century. Almost every nation has border problems with another nation. And I think it would be really naive to say that "Albanians are evil because they're Muslims and thus the puppets of Turkey", or the same thing for the Bosnians. It's true that the Bosnians did get aid from Turkey because a lot of Bosnians already live there and because some religious organizations saw this as a great opportunity to influence the nominally Muslim Bosnians. The Saudis helped for the exact same reasons. However, it's also a fact that the Serbs and Croats fought with each other too. Both Christians, and? What I'm trying to say is, it's an established fact that the Balkans is full of potential to blow up because of all the said (and unsaid) reasons and therefore it makes no sense to blame it on "evil Islam". I'm not a fan of Islam personally, but I detest the Christian fundies equally.

One would think people would have gotten over the whole "religion" issue by the 21st century...

[Menydh]

No matter what our beliefs may be Christianity is a strong element of our culture, and the preservation of our culture is going to be even more difficult if we trash that part of our heritage.

Contrary to the delusions of a few retards who need to belief that race has played a major role in the wars for Europe --which has never been the case--, it has been Christianity that has united nations in times of distress.

Same thing for spirituality. Christianity has been both a depositary of the values of Europe and a platform for the evolution of such values.

And this is an important part of the actual problem. People have been losing the faith in their cultural heritage and spirituality. And not just ordinary people, but the churches themselves have too. The people are lost at their spirituality and those who are supposed to provide for it are confusing people.

Islam, on the other hand, is part of the culture and spirituality of another people. A people who are strange to Europe and a culture and spirituality also strange and further alien and even opposed to the culture and spirituality of Europe.

Islam is not coming to Europe to cohabitate with Christianity. Islam is inflitrating in Europe to substitute Christianity and consequently to substitute the culture and spirituality of Europe. In short, to give the final blow to Europe.

[Vojvoda]

Originally Posted by Pseguash

Just my 2 cents on the subject, I find it rather irrelevant to base our biases on religion. It is a well known fact that the Catholics and Orthodox Christians were at each others' throats only quite recently and treated the other side as an abomination. Most of the time Catholic countries like France allied with the Ottoman Empire rather than allying with Austria-Hungary as it was getting rather too powerful; or Britain, a country they had been fighting with for over hundreds of years. I don't think religion plays a part as religion itself; it is only used as a propaganda tool, and most of the time it works very well. It's true that some of the fighting that's going on and has gone on in the Balkans now and in the recent past was thanks to the Ottoman Empire's policy of "divide and rule" (which they no doubt borrowed from the English). Bosnia and Albania are two good examples of it. I guess they never actually bothered about what would happen if they were to leave these groups on their own. Well, now we know. The Balkans had been waiting to explode for a long time and they finally did -starting in the late 19th and early 20th century. Almost every nation has border problems with another nation. And I think it would be really naive to say that "Albanians are evil because they're Muslims and thus the puppets of Turkey", or the same thing for the Bosnians. It's true that the Bosnians did get aid from Turkey because a lot of Bosnians already live there and because some religious organizations saw this as a great opportunity to influence the nominally Muslim Bosnians. The Saudis helped for the exact same reasons. However, it's also a fact that the Serbs and Croats fought with each other too. Both Christians, and? What I'm trying to say is, it's an established fact that the Balkans is full of potential to blow up because of all the said (and unsaid) reasons and therefore it makes no sense to blame it on "evil Islam". I'm not a fan of Islam personally, but I detest the Christian fundies equally.

One would think people would have gotten over the whole "religion" issue by the 21st century...

The Kosovo conflict had nothing to do with religion.There are no Christian 'fundies' and 'Islamicists' are something new to the Balkans.It was about two very different ethnicities, in other words 'Albanism' and 'Serbianism' if we want to label it, and cultures clashing as it pretty much always does, and always will unfortunately, in the Balkans.The Bosnia conflict was more about an 'eye for an eye' for what happened during WW2 no matter how outsiders look at it, a vicious circle Balkan style.

[Rusalka]

Originally Posted by Vožd

The Kosovo conflict had nothing to do with religion.There are no Christian 'fundies' and 'Islamicists' are something new to the Balkans.It was about two very different ethnicities, in other words 'Albanism' and 'Serbianism' if we want to label it, and cultures clashing as it pretty much always does, and always will unfortunately, in the Balkans.The Bosnia conflict was more about an 'eye for an eye' for what happened during WW2 no matter how outsiders look at it, a vicious circle Balkan style.

That's how I see the situation too. The Balkans are just too mixed with ethnicities who hold past grudges and there's always something waiting to explode. Unfortunately, it always works in the favor of greater states and they make whatever profit they can make of it and they're usually very fond of playing the religion card. I know many Islamist fringe groups in Turkey did that during the Bosnian war, and made millions of dollars off of it.

[Vojvoda]

Just like Otto Von Bismarck said before his death, a world war will start over something ridiculous in the Balkans and I won't live to see it