The Northern-Southern Italian divide [split]

[Youenn]

Originally Posted by svin

I visited Tuscany in summer. Is it considered to be part of N. Italy? I didn't get impression that it was southern European country (or eastern, if we agree with Mynydd that division of Italy is more west-east, than north-south). I was expecting France to look like that.

Even today despite the frenchization, there are termes to define people, "nordiste" and "sudiste". When I worked a short time near to Narbonna, a Catalan co-worker called me "le nordique". Another friend of mine, half-Gascon half-Corsican, called me "le nordiste".
On contrary, I never saw or heard a division of the french hexagon based on the west and east, it's quite unrealistic.

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by Youenn

Even today despite the frenchization, there are termes to define people, "nordiste" and "sudiste". When I worked a short time near to Narbonna, a Catalan co-worker called me "le nordique". Another friend of mine, half-Gascon half-Corsican, called me "le nordiste".

Funnily enough, that must have been because they sensed you as "French" (or Oïl French). Not because they sensed you as Breton.

On contrary, I never saw or heard a division of the french hexagon based on the west and east, it's quite unrealistic.

Because that's specific of Italy. FYI, the South there still retains much of the source of its identity either from the Magna Graecia or from Byzantium, or both.

[Exeter]

I'm curious to learn what you mean with brave. Do you feel it is unsafe?

Originally Posted by Strengthandhonour

I recommend this to you for the south..if you are brave of course, Svin

[kyashan]

Don't get me wrong. That was not only about phenotypes. It was impression about region as a whole: people, architecture, way of life etc.

well I can't speak for Tuscany but Northern Italy has a distinctive workalcholic way of life pretty distant from the current stereotypes on Italians being relaxed and laid back.
I think this whole typecasted portrait of Italy has to do with tourists coming here and spending their vacations in resorts in Rome or Ischia where you get a deceptive impression of a relaxed lifestyle.
Personally I never had the impression when abroad of spending my time among work crazed people so different from our own lifestyle.

[Youenn]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

Funnily enough, that must have been because they sensed you as "French" (or Oïl French). Not because they sensed you as Breton.

You will laugh but the first time he saw me he thought that I was English.
In fact, when he thought "English", he thought "people from Great Britain/British Island" like many people. It was surely due to my looks, my pale/pinky skin.

After some days, he called me the "nordique", he thought I was a "ch'ti" because my accent sounds like the dialect of the north of France and frenchized Flanders. I speak very quickly and I clip the word endings. My temperament also is different, more reserved.

[Strengthandhonour]

Originally Posted by Exeter

I'm curious to learn what you mean with brave. Do you feel it is unsafe?

Some parts of the south are not as tourist friendly as the north. Meaning that not as many people speak English and not enough tourist centers and such.

[Laocoon]

Is it risky?

[Exeter]

I see, one could call that inconvenient. There are many European countries and regions like that.

Originally Posted by Strengthandhonour

Some parts of the south are not as tourist friendly as the north. Meaning that not as many people speak English and not enough tourist centers and such.

[svin]

I think it's very good there are still places in Europe not polluted by mass tourism (and immigration, which is more important).

[Kernunnos]

Originally Posted by Carnyx

Is it risky?

Walking rules in Naples: no cameras, no watches, no jewels like earrings or necklaces, two wallets, a fake one with few unworthy notes in the rear trouser's pocket, the real wallet with your belongings hidden inside the suit nearby hart, or hidden under trouses in a hidden pocket.

Source: a neapolitan wise friend.

If someone attempts a robbery at you, do not react because if you manage to win the aggressor he will then be back with a pistol or a knife, or bystanders will help him in certain areas.


Source: cases from newspapers' chronicles.

Never buy anything from somebody proposing you a camera or a video recorder in a alley at bargain price, you will get a nice packet wrapping a brick. Never attempt to get your money back , see why in the robbery case.

Source: as above.

Cars: never open your windows to any solicitations, do not ajut your wrist out of the window at semaphores carryng watches or rings, do not altercate, do not react if rearended, do not react if soembody scratches your car body, use an old car as new ones won't be yours for much.

Source: neapolitan common wisdom.

Last: now enjoy the town.

[Laocoon]

Originally Posted by Breha

Never buy anything from somebody proposing you a camera or a video recorder in a alley at bargain price, you will get a nice packet wrapping a brick. Never attempt to get your money back , see why in the robbery case.

Source: as above.

Aha yes, I heared of a similar story: some Turks waiting for their boat to Turkey who bought a fake camera. First the one they checked was real, on the other the one they got was filled with sand.

Last: now enjoy the town.

What more? Rosary and life insurance?

What about Roma now? Is it safer?

[TiCon]

What is exactly known about the German ancestry of Garibaldi,? as I have read once that he has german mother or grandmother, can't remember very clear.

Does anyone know more of this subject?

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by Youenn

You will laugh but the first time he saw me he thought that I was English.
In fact, when he thought "English", he thought "people from Great Britain/British Island" like many people. It was surely due to my looks, my pale/pinky skin.

And why should I laugh? http://forum.stirpes.net/anthropomet...fy-please.html

[Taurin]

Originally Posted by kyashan

are you from Turin? What do you think is the % of Turin citizens of southern descent?

You could ask the other way round, so that I may go out and count on my fingertips how many Piedmontese could possibly remain. Seriously, I don't know the exact extent of the consequences of southern migrations, but most of my acquaintances are either of southern ancestry or mixed.

Anyway don't worry, it's still prevalently Europid around here. You just have to get used to the Rumanian and Albanian talk, and patiently endure the Arab parlance.

Originally Posted by svin
I visited Tuscany in summer. Is it considered to be part of N. Italy? I didn't get impression that it was southern European country (or eastern, if we agree with Mynydd that division of Italy is more west-east, than north-south). I was expecting France to look like that.

Tuscany definitely belongs to the Center, together with Marche, Umbria, Lazio and Abruzzo. Should we simplify the subdivision, then Tuscany, Umbria and Marche would usually be assigned to the North (they're even considered in the separatist program of the Lega Nord), while Lazio and Abruzzo would side with the South.

Originally Posted by Breha

Many tuscans overlap with northern italians, believe me.

Don't forget that the invading gauls destroyed large etruscan presence in Aemilia and southern Lombardy.

Chronicles speak of something of an ethnic cleansing by the Gauls but reality as we know is probably different.

Very well, but we don't need claims about early antiquity, in order to 'annex' Tuscany - as its medieval and modern history, until the Risorgimento (i.e. the subjugation), has always sided with the communal and dynastic history of the North. You may however remember the opinion of some disappointed Lega leader, "we should amputate higher."

Originally Posted by Mynydd

And, anyway, the North vs. South issue is in reality a matter of (South-)West vs. (South-)East identity.

That's what even genetical maps would suggest. Northern Italy tends to cluster with western Europe, while the South seems strongly affiliated with Greece.

Anyway, genetics aside, it is well known that so-called 'Gallo-Italic' languages belong to the western branch of Romance languages, whose frontier is the line La Spezia-Rimini (which should more aptly be named Massa-Senigallia). Here's a reasonably accurate map, for those interested in details.

[kyashan]

You could ask the other way round, so that I may go out and count on my fingertips how many Piedmontese could possibly remain. Seriously, I don't know the exact extent of the consequences of southern migrations, but most of my acquaintances are either of southern ancestry or mixed.

OMG! do you actually live in Mirafiori?
besides Southerners and Piedmontese I suppose Turin has a sizeable minority of other immigrants coming from Northern Italy, right now I can name Vittorio Messori, Valentino Castellani and Don Ciotti...

[Taurin]

Originally Posted by kyashan