Who is interested in the struggle of the Breton nation?

[Carnyx]

I'm greatly interested in the Saamiland independance too.

[Routasydän]

Let's not get all touchy. The Saami have a great degree of rights and their culture is recognized and protected. However, they are such a small minority and do not inhabit a very clearly definable geographic location. The notion of an independent saami nation is logistically impossible. They don't make up the majority of the population anywhere, as far as I know. Yet, they have their own parliament and cultural organization. I would say they have about as much autonomy as possible considering the circumstances.

Then of course, your response was not a serious one, merely a childish provocation.

EDIT: After further research, the Saami constitute a majority only in the municipality of Utsjoki. Would they wish for greater autonomy within their ethnic boundaries, I would have no problem with that. But like I said, it would be very hard to put together an autonomous Saamiland, and there doesn't seem to be much demand for one either.

[Carnyx]

Originally Posted by Wilpuri

Let's not get all touchy. The Saami have a great degree of rights and their culture is recognized and protected. However, they are such a small minority and do not inhabit a very clearly definable geographic location. The notion of an independent saami nation is logistically impossible. They don't make up the majority of the population anywhere, as far as I know. Yet, they have their own parliament and cultural organization. I would say they have about as much autonomy as possible considering the circumstances.

Very interesting... Just a question : Do you really think Bretons are persecuted by French and France?...

Then of course, your response was not a serious one, merely a childish provocation.

No childish provocation there. I just intended to show you that the Breton "issue" is as your business as the Saamis is mine, i.e. Bretons are not your business, Saami are not mine. Get it or should I be clearer?

I'm not for interference. Just deal as you want with your Saami minority, we'll deal as we wish with Brittany. It's overall a Franco-Breton issue.

[Routasydän]

Originally Posted by Duchemin

Very interesting... Just a question : Do you really think Bretons are persecuted by French and France?...

All I know is, that France doesn't do recognizing minorities too much. I think a historical minority, such as the Bretons, deserve autonomy (unless they didn't want it). As a nationalist, I cannot see any other just way, and I don't see how another nationalist would see differently.

No childish provocation there. I just intended to show you that the Breton "issue" is as your business as the Saamis is mine, i.e. Bretons are not your business, Saami are not mine. Get it or should I be clearer?

I think the Bretons are as much 'my' business as they are yours. The Saamis just cannot have an autonomous state, it isn't plausible. The Åland Islands have pretty much complete autonomy, except in foreign affairs. Finnish-speakers aren't even allowed to live there without some sort of complicated proceedings.

I'm not for interference. Just deal as you want with your Saami minority, we'll deal as we wish with Brittany. It's overall a Franco-Breton issue.

I don't think anyone should be allowed to treat their historical minorities as they wish, like Russia is doing. It is the eradication of culture, forceful russification what is going on there.

[Breogan]

Originally Posted by Judon ap Concar

Dear fellow nationalists,

I am a new member of this forum and my name is Judon ap Concar

For more than 200 years Brittany has been illegally and violently occupied by a foreign country, France. Who is aware of this? Not many people I am afraid, as France is always very good at “selling” its viewpoint abroad and shutting any public expression of defiance.

Is anybody on this forum interested in the fate of this small but fierce and hard working nation? Is anybody sympathetic, supportive or just curious about the “Breton cause”?

I salute Judon ap Concar.

I know ADSAV from a Breton guy who posted the matter in our Forum.
Spanish Traditionalists are sympathetic about any cause impplying Ehtnic, Cultural and Spiritual Preservation of any European Country, and of course, this includes Brittany.
I must make clear I have nothing against France as a nation but as a Jacobine and centralist State.

[Judon ap Concar]

Hello!

I would like to thank Breogan and Wilpuri for their support.

Wilpuri certainly lives far from the "hexagone" (a way to describe France as a state v/ as a nation), but his analysis is right and perfectly accurate. What a difference with Duchemin who exhibits this so typically French “mauvaise foi” (bad faith).

To address few points all together:

The Saami have rights that we Breton were never granted since 1789. Not to speak about the high standards of autonomy that Swedes enjoy in Finland. I wish we were occupied by Finland! Despite the fact that we are a unique nation of 4 to 5 million people with a distinct culture, a clearly defined space of the size of Denmark and that we lived an independent life for almost 1000 years (VI to XVI centuries) we are treated like ordinary French citizens. Our only rights are individual rights: we can go to school, but the only public schools provided are French speaking schools and all kinds of barriers are put to prevent private Breton schools to emerge strongly despite popular demands. We can vote, but in practice non French parties are being destroyed (it is easy you just need to pretend that nationalists are terrorists …). The French usually do not understand that individual rights are not enough and that what is good for them is not necessary good for others.

This situation tells a lot about the schizophrenic attitude of France when it comes to nationhood. Duchemin says we could be Breton and French. They all say that, but how honest is such a viewpoint? Let’s ask about the details. Duchemin’s jokes on the Saami do not indicate that much would be done in favour of a true breton autonomy. In practice it means: we can keep a bit of our folklore (good for tourism) but we need to avoid engaging in higher breton activities, especially in the cultural or political fields. We are urged to embrace the sub-culture of the French nation state, including French “thinkers” (Voltaire , Rousseau, Maurras) and other jerks like this… The French sub-culture has become increasingly sterile and trivial since the middle ages but this is not just by chance, it is resulting from the state control nature of cultural production. Compare Shakespeare and Corneille, Voltaire and Herder, Goethe and Balzac etc. The few interesting productions written in French usually came from the “periphery”, and have a taste of something not typically French.

For the rest, people like Duchemin would like us to shut up and accept to be ruled by the central state, and to be killed at war in the name of France. We, nationalists, are for them just a cause of trouble. Usually they tell us “you are divisive”. But why should we care for the sake of a system designed to kill us?

Most of the French just do not understand that people refuse their “superior” culture and state. They joke about our legitimate grievances, make us “funny”. So arrogant and superior, but for what reason after all? This is somewhat obscure …

Wilpuri says that autonomy should be granted when it is wished. We need to work on this and help sustain self cousciousness. I devote a lot of my time to this task. Actually, we are more and more people in the young generation to call for independence. It is quite courageous given the mix of disdain and irony that we receive from the French. Too many Bretons still have some mix feelings when they see themselves put in the box “you are just a backward folk who needs to be educated by Paris if you want to make a living”. The failure of the French system that we see happening under our eyes could galvanise Bretons and indicate that after all the French way is a very bad solution.

Judon ap Concar

[Routasydän]

Originally Posted by Judon ap Concar

Hello!


The Saami have rights that we Breton were never granted since 1789. Not to speak about the high standards of autonomy that Swedes enjoy in Finland.

Just a correction, they aren't Swedes, but rather Swedish-speking Finns. A linguistic minority rather than a cultural or ethnic one. Swedish is my other mother tongue, but I am by no means a Swede.

Otherwise a very interesting post. I think Duchemin should think about what nationalism is about. I'm curious (and please don't take offence), what exactly is it, that stands in the way of an autonomous Breton state? Catalonia in Spain is about get increased autonomy, why not the Breton nation in France? Please avoid heated answer. I would just like to hear the arguments against Breton autonomy.

[Milesian]

How about an alternative solution.
Deportation of Anglo-Saxons from Britain to their original lands, repatriation of Bretons to their original homeland in Britain, the dividing of what is now called "England" between the Welsh, Bretons, and other groups who have a Pre-Anglo Saxon claim to the land. France could then claim Brittany as totally French.

Everyone wins, right?
Well except the Germans and Danes. I apologise to them in advance

[Routasydän]

Originally Posted by Milesian

How about an alternative solution.
Deportation of Anglo-Saxons from Britain, repatriation of Bretons to their original homeland in Britain, the dividing of what is now called "England" between the Welsh, Bretons, and other groups who have a Pre-Anglo Saxon claim to the land. France could then claim Brittany as totally French.

Everyone wins, right?
Well except the Germans and Danes. I apologise to them in advance

While we're at it, let's let the Russian keep Muscovy and give the rest of the lands back to the original owners. Strike that, give Muscovy back to the now extinct Merya and other Finnic/Finno-permic tribers.

[Youenn]

Originally Posted by Milesian

How about an alternative solution.
Deportation of Anglo-Saxons from Britain, repatriation of Bretons to their original homeland in Britain, the dividing of what is now called "England" between the Welsh, Bretons, and other groups who have a Pre-Anglo Saxon claim to the land. France could then claim Brittany as totally French.

My dream...

[Menydh]

Beautiful words, Milesian. I hope that they are prophetic. However, once the Kernowek, Cymraeg and Brezhoneg have reunited in their ancestral homelands of Pryddain, couldn't we consider those who stay in Breizh as descendents of the Armorican Gauls and let them keep it too?

[Gil]

You bunch of moderates! Just kick out all neolithic invaders and return Europe to it's rightful Upper-Paleolithic/Cro-magnoid owners!

Back to topic, I think the Breton case is very specific and cannot be compared to the Saami, mainly because the Saami are ethnically, linguistically and culturally different from the average Finn while I think you can't really tell the difference between an ethnic "french" and a ethnic "breton".
I think "french" is an umbrella term, used in the same way as "germanic". There are alot of germanic ethnic groups though even if different they all remain germanic. Culturally and even physically they might have differences but their ethnos and roots are the same.
Nonetheless I think that we have to approach the subject from a realistic perspective:

a) are there enough bretons who believe in full/partial independence
b) are they willing to fight for their independence
c) are they interested in preserving their identity
d) do they want autonomy or full-fledged nationhood

If all above points are realities then it shouldn't take long for Breizh to become independant. The facts, i'm not really aware of them, though my idea is that there are some who fill the criteria I stated above though they are a minority. And let's face it, a minority won't get very far when it comes to real action or at least visible representation.

As a sidenote, if there was enough pressure from enough bretons they could even become fully independent, seeing as Republican France has trouble in dealing with minorities...

My personal opinion is that it's up to the Bretons to decide and the french government to take that into account.

[Routasydän]

a) are there enough bretons who believe in full/partial independence
b) are they willing to fight for their independence
c) are they interested in preserving their identity
d) do they want autonomy or full-fledged nationhood

Exactly, if they want autonomy, then I believe it should be granted. If they don't care, they obviously don't need it. A referendum or something might be administered.

As for fighting for independence, I'm unsure what you mean. I think it would be terrible if they would have to begin an armed struggle with fellow Europeans. It is important for Nationalists to heed the concerns of their ideological brethren. Solidarity between nationalist movements in Europe very important if are to have any success. Squabbling will only portray us as extremists and leave us in the margin. If the Bretons were to demand autonomy today, and the French government would resist it (for example the current government), I would be very disappointed if French nationalists opposed the bid for autonomy. I don't think full independence is that vital in their geographical and geopolitical situation, but I personally wouldn't mind. I just think that making demands too bold will backfire.

[Milesian]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

couldn't we consider those who stay in Breizh as descendents of the Armorican Gauls and let them keep it too?

No