Gibraltar

[Turbamulta]

Originally Posted by Arawn

And what happened to them after the Aztecs were defeated?
They dined and wined and ruled the country together with the Spanish and lived happily ever after[/sarcasm]

They were converted to the Catholicism (the main objective of the Spaniards) and were governed better or worse by the Spaniards until they became independent, against the opinion of many of them. It is a history better or worse than those of the natives who finished into the hands of the Anglo-Saxons?

[Arawn]

Forced to convert. Hardly the thanks you'd expect from trustworthy allies.

[Faísca]

Originally Posted by Arawn

Forced to convert. Hardly the thanks you'd expect from trustworthy allies.

You are just analyzing it by today's standards. If you were making an exam on history, you would most likely fail.

[Turbamulta]

Originally Posted by Arawn

Forced to convert. Hardly the thanks you'd expect from trustworthy allies.

Ok ,millions and millions of natives were forced to convert to the Catholicism by some hundreds of Spaniards. I think that it is better than to be forced to die.

[Arawn]

You are just analyzing it by today's standards. If you were making an exam on history, you would most likely fail.

If i was making the exam i'd be grading it too.

Ok ,millions and millions of natives were forced to convert to the Catholicism by some hundreds of Spaniards. I think that it is better than to be forced to die.

And if you were one of those ex-allies of the Spanish, you'd think they were pretty damn untrustworthy.

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by Mr Curzon Biggles

And i wonder why no other Brit participates in this , seriously how can you make such a damming & sweeping statement, by a Moderator as well.

My English isnt that bad

I wasn't refering to your bad English, but to Arriano's.

[Turbamulta]

Originally Posted by Arawn

And if you were one of those ex-allies of the Spanish, you'd think they were pretty damn untrustworthy.

Avoiding the discussion if the natives were forced to convert to the Catholicism or no, or if they were really betrayed, the accusation of be "untrustworthy" is not really grave, comparing with the accusations on the Anglo-Saxons.

[Theobald]

Originally Posted by Turbamulta

It is a priority for me help the basques and catalonians who live in the French Jacobin state than the legal claim of a territory. A rock is a rock, and it is in no danger, but this people live in a hostile environment for their cultures and idiosyncrasy.

So if Basques and Catalonians are in "danger" in France, they are also in Spain... Maybe we have a Jacobin State, and I'm against it, because this State is also againt Alsatian culture, but don't forget Spain had a very centralist governement 25 years ago, which tried to destroy regional cultures, like Galician, Catalonian or Basque culture...

[Arawn]

Point being Spain and England both played the game of using and later abusing allies, and basicly shitting on as many people as they good, and when it came to a show down between the two, England ended up on top. How you think both Spain and England got their huge empires? By being nice to everyone and inviting them round to tea?
Seems a bit cheap to me to slam the English for something the Spanish were very good at too.

[Ferran]

Originally Posted by Der Elsasser

So if Basques and Catalonians are in "danger" in France, they are also in Spain... Maybe we have a Jacobin State, and I'm against it, because this State is also againt Alsatian culture, but don't forget Spain had a very centralist governement 25 years ago, which tried to destroy regional cultures, like Galician, Catalonian or Basque culture...

Excuse me Der Elsasser, you are missing an important point here: because Catalan, Basque and Galician are all official languages in Spain at the same level (everyone in its own land, of course), and well, now tell me: what's the situation of those languages (excluding Galician) in France?

As far as I know, no French teacher can give any subject in Catalan or Basque, and on the other hand, in -Spanish- Catalonia, we learn at school in Catalan, and of course Basques do the same on it's own, I think it's the most significative difference between Spain and France on that matter.

[Turbamulta]

Originally Posted by Der Elsasser

So if Basques and Catalonians are in "danger" in France, they are also in Spain... Maybe we have a Jacobin State, and I'm against it, because this State is also againt Alsatian culture, but don't forget Spain had a very centralist governement 25 years ago, which tried to destroy regional cultures, like Galician, Catalonian or Basque culture...

Well, Franco's regime was not actually repressive (al least not as a system) with the Galician or Basque culture, but he promoted only Castilian language and Andalusian culture. Compared with the activity of the successive French governments after the revolution of 1789, the Franco's cultural repression was a joke. The Catalonian or Basque speakers before and after Franco's regime was very similar, is totally impossible find in the History of Spain something similar to the politics of Bertrand Barère or Henri-Baptiste Grégorie, author of "Sur la nécessité et les moyens d'anéantir le patois, et d'universaliser l'usage de la langue française". (About the necessity and the means to annihilate the dialects, and universalize the use of the French language).
Today, basque, galician and catalonian languages are official languages in their terrotories.

Point being Spain and England both played the game of using and later abusing allies, and basicly shitting on as many people as they good, and when it came to a show down between the two, England ended up on top. How you think both Spain and England got their huge empires? By being nice to everyone and inviting them round to tea?
Seems a bit cheap to me to slam the English for something the Spanish were very good at too.

I can't stop you to consider anything, but I think there are too many unequalable points between the politics of England and Spain, not only in their Empires, but also in its humanitarian and foreign policy in general.

[Theobald]

Originally Posted by Kohler

Excuse me Der Elsasser, you are missing an important point here: because Catalan, Basque and Galician are official languages in Spain at the same level (everyone in its own land, of course), and well, now tell me: what's the situation of that languages (excluding Galician) in France?

As I know, no French teacher can give any subject in Catalan or Basque, and by other hand, in the Spanish Catalonia we can learn at school in Catalan, this is the more significative difference between Spain and France on that matter.

Yes, sad and true
Our French Jacobin Republic, diriged by Jews and Freemasons, try to destroy Regional identities and cultures, as same as they try to destroy French-language (and other Latin languages too) and to impose English language as international language because they totally control JewSA.
In an ideal Nationalist French State, regional identities and cultures would be respected and Catalonians children would can learn at school in Catalan and French, Alsatians in German and French, Basque in Basque and French, ... Don't forget Maurras was a regionalist
I hope we will soon instore this State

[Graeme]

With reference to Gibraltar. I don't think anyone has meant to slag off the UK over Gibraltar but Gibraltar is not part of Great Britain. It has its own government and gets EU funding. It is a Crown Colony. It is up to Spain to use the EU legal system to overthrow the Treaty of Utrecht. What happens to the inhabitants of Gibraltar when Spain takes it back is not my concern but EU citizens can live and work where they like in the EU countries. It is unlikely the government of Spain has the ability to deport them from Spain. For Basques and Catalans in France I feel it is too late to stop the assimilation of the French language and culture and to adopt or foster the use of Catalan or Basque. The trend in most countries is the loss of dialects, the adoption of Standard and the assimilation of minorities.