Are Georgians and Armenians Europeans?

[Routasydän]

In my opinion Georgians look like Europeans, their culture seems European (people naturally have varying definitions) and historically they are situated within the sphere of European affairs. I don't see any reason not consider them European, even if they are on the periphery.

ok people are asking if Georgia is european country. Ok than i will ask some questions:
y georgia is in european parlament, y european countries are going to let georgia in european union and y georgia is in european soccer. here is one video i think German people made it so sheck it out and i think it will help u guys wheather goergia is in europe or in asia.

YouTube - Invest in European Georgia

Yes, Georgians are Europeans and true Christian Caucasians.

As a matter of fact, the first Europeans ever discovered on planet Earth were in Georgia (1.8 million year old humanoid discovered in Dmanisi).

Georgians are the second country on Earth to become Christian (318AD), first being Armenia by only about 15 years difference. But, Georgians are true Orthodox Christians, while the majority of the Armenian population (over 93%) belongs to the Armenian Apostolic Church.

Georgians and Armenians are very different in the way they look and culturally. Georgians have brown, blonde and black haired people along with blue, green and brown eyed people. Armenians are darker and have certain Persian features.

Georgia was always fighting off the invading Persians over and over. They could not quell the small Christian Kingdom which dominated the region for thousands of years. Persians have ruined and burned many Georgian cities in its time, but never conquered Georgian Kingdoms in entireity.

In 1783, Russia and the Eastern Georgian Kingdom of Kartli-Kakheti signed the Treaty of Georgievsk, according to which Kartli-Kakheti received protection by Russia. This, however, did not prevent Tbilisi from being sacked by the Persians in 1795. This is what certain Russians call: "Russia helped Georgia against Muslims".




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If you want facts and true answers about Georgia, do not, I repeat, do not listen to what certain Russian people tell you. Its unfortunate, but Russians have been brainwashed and lied to for quite some time since the collapse of the Soviet Union. They like to form their own version of history and create hate and government formed opinions. This is why 100% of Russian TV is state controlled and journalists are murdered like there is no law.

For example, Stalin was an ethnic Georgian, regardless of the fact that he made Russia into a world superpower and defeated the Nazi's, Stalin was a ruthless man, just as any other Russian tzar or ruler. However, the Russian government blames Stalin for just about everything they can and emphasizing on the fact that he was Georgian. This being said, Prime Minister and former President Putin uses 90% of Stalins tactics to this day (not neccesarily a good thing)...and millions upon millions of Russians love Stalin even today. -- Not to mention Stalin as a young man was mentored and a hand picked successor by Lenin himself.

However, there are ofcourse very smart Russian people out there who dont fall for the Russian governments lies and manipulation. There is a very true statment made by a famous professor, which describes Russia's government very well:

"First the crime and then the lie." Which has been seen time and time again in Russia's history.

Today, Georgia faces a struggle to prevent Russia from annexing its two regions of Abkhazeti and Ossetia. Regardless of the lies and mind games they will tell you, its a true reality. Russia already annexed the Georgian territory of Sochi, which will hold the next Winter Olympics.

All being said, I hope peace prevails over Russian aggression.

Originally Posted by Marulus

You mean, their alphabet? It is - allegedly - derived from the Armenian alphabet and the Armenian one from the Greek one.

The Georgian alphabet has nothing to do with the Armenian one and is one of the only original alphabets of the world. Some forms of the alphabet have been said to come from Greek.

The oldest uncontroversial examples of Georgian writing are an asomtavruli inscription in a church in Bethlehem from 430 AD.

The examples of the earliest alphabet, asomtavruli ("capital letters") also known as mrgvlovani ("rounded"), are still preserved in monumental inscriptions, such as those of the Georgian church in Bethlehem (near Jerusalem, 430AD)

[Llywarch Hen]

Originally Posted by Iverieli

Yes, Georgians are Europeans and true Christian Caucasians.

Yep, agreed.

As a matter of fact, the first Europeans ever discovered on planet Earth were in Georgia (1.8 million year old humanoid discovered in Dmanisi).

Where do you put the Asian border? The Great Caucasus itself is usually used!
And how do you know that these hominids were not the first ever Azeris in the world, who just happened to be on holiday in Sakartvelo when they died?

For example, Stalin was an ethnic Georgian, regardless of the fact that he made Russia into a world superpower and defeated the Nazi's, Stalin was a ruthless man, just as any other Russian tzar or ruler. However, the Russian government blames Stalin for just about everything they can and emphasizing on the fact that he was Georgian.

In my experience of living in Russia, it's not nearly so one-sided, and many people I know praise Stalin. It's also widely known (though who can say exactly?) that he was only half Georgian, and half Osset.

Today, Georgia faces a struggle to prevent Russia from annexing its two regions of Abkhazeti and Ossetia. Regardless of the lies and mind games they will tell you, its a true reality. Russia already annexed the Georgian territory of Sochi, which will hold the next Winter Olympics.

To talk of Sochi having been annexed from Georgia is nothing short of hilarious!

When Russia took the area of Sochi, there was no Georgian state in the region.
The original inhabitants of the area were the Ubykhs, a kind of Cherkess people, but they all fled to Turkey when the Russians turned up. They had never been under direct Georgian rule. There's still a very small number of local Cherkess there, of a different variety, but again, no connection with Georgians.
The Abkhaz are close relatives of the Cherkess and Ubykhs, and do not consider themselves Georgian. Do you have the right to control their land just because it's on the same side of the mountains as you?!?
The Ossets in South Ossetia are obviously related to the Northern Ossets within the Russian Federation, and they seek self-determination and union with their kinsmen. The situation is more problematic, however, than Sochi or Abkhazia, as Southern Ossetia sticks right into the middle of true Georgian territories, and the Ossets have not been there since the dawn of time.
So - our Georgian guest has proven himself a European - he is as irredentist and historically imaginative as the best of Balkanics!

[Errigal]

Originally Posted by Laocoon

Just out of curiosity, why the Irish? Hibernia was not conquered by Rome. And what bout the English whose ancestors came at the very end of the Roman presence on the island?

This entry at Wikipedia gives a good introduction to the Irish missionaries in Europe:

Hiberno-Scottish mission - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[EUNationalist]

For me there's no doubt.

Georgia could be and is often considered geographically European. (link)

Georgia is politically European and have for a very long time been turned towards Europe. (link, link)

Georgians are not Indo-European but they have lived in "Europe" longer than we have. So maybe they could even be considered to have more right to the title "European" than we do? (link) (I'm Swedish btw with mostly Swedish but also Danish ancestors) And as someone mentioned, they look European. I think if you were to guess where they are from you could quite easily think they are from southern Europe "proper".

However, for the rest of Caucasus, I'm not sure about Armenia and Azerbaijan.

[Exeter]

I don't think it's deliberate. You're reading too much into that. Infantile blondism is common among all white people except maybe the darkest such as Sardinians. Blonde Georgian adults are of course much rarer than kids as hair darkens with age.

Originally Posted by Austrvegr

Funny how they put blond kids who are very rare in Georgia into this national anthem video. They seem to think that blondness is a pass to the EU and NATO.

[Pirate]

European look? Whatever that is...

[Marcus Marulus]

Originally Posted by EUNationalist

Georgia could be and is often considered geographically European. (link)

Though it is located south from Caucasus, a formidable natural barrier between Europe and Asia. By that logic alone Azerbaijan is also European.

Originally Posted by EUNationalist

Georgia is politically European and have for a very long time been turned towards Europe. (link, link)

What does it mean to be "politically European"? There is no such thing.

Originally Posted by EUNationalist

Georgians are not Indo-European but they have lived in "Europe" longer than we have. So maybe they could even be considered to have more right to the title "European" than we do? (link)

Who is "we"? Do you mean Swedes?

Originally Posted by EUNationalist

And as someone mentioned, they look European.

There is no such such thing, unless you consider being of Europid ("white") race as something determining somebody's "European look". In that case many Berbers are Europeans too.

*Note: with what I said I did not expressly state that Georgians are or are not Europeans (I am not sure yet what to think about it), but I am simply saying that someone should be careful with choosing arguments in favour of one or another option.

[Routasydän]

It is not only geography, or only looks or only politics and culture. Its a combination of them, and to me the mix of these that is Georgia seems European. I say "seems" because I've never met a Georgian and I'm hardly knowledgable in the subject. But I'm still to hear why exactly Georgians would not be considered within the spectrum of Europe?

[Llywarch Hen]

I've met a fair few, and have no quarrel with their 'Europeanness', if they want it. I'd say the same for Armenians, thought the near eastern 'look' is stronger with many of them. Azeris - no way! I wouldn't even include much of Dagestan! The religious, cultural, and racial boundaries don't match the geographical ones. Established Christendom and concomitant struggles against the Turk and the Caliph and the Shah is the best argument for Armenians and Georgians.

[Pro Patria]

Originally Posted by leksusa

YouTube - Invest in European Georgia

Listening to background music in this video, I would say no. Middle East, not Europe.

[Marcus Marulus]

Originally Posted by Iverieli

As a matter of fact, the first Europeans ever discovered on planet Earth were in Georgia (1.8 million year old humanoid discovered in Dmanisi).

There were no "Europeans" back then.

Originally Posted by Iverieli

Georgians and Armenians are very different in the way they look and culturally. Georgians have brown, blonde and black haired people along with blue, green and brown eyed people. Armenians are darker and have certain Persian features.

C' mon, this is no argument for Europeanness of any sorts, paler skin or darker skin. Nowadays everybody seems to be intent on beinng paler or blonder than he really is.

Originally Posted by Iverieli

Today, Georgia faces a struggle to prevent Russia from annexing its two regions of Abkhazeti

Why not Apsny? What about the Abkhaz people and their land?

Originally Posted by Iverieli

Russia already annexed the Georgian territory of Sochi, which will hold the next Winter Olympics.

When exactly was Sochi Georgian?

[EUNationalist]

Originally Posted by Marulus

Though it is located south from Caucasus, a formidable natural barrier between Europe and Asia. By that logic alone Azerbaijan is also European.

As wilpuri said, it's a combination of factors that decide. For example, I'm not sure if I should call Turkey a European country just because a small part of it is geographically located in Europe. Culturally there's a bigger difference between us in that case.

Originally Posted by Marulus

What does it mean to be "politically European"? There is no such thing.

Of course there is such as thing. It's not about ideology. Not sure about the exact definition. For example Russia is currently considered mostly geographically European while a 100 years ago they were very much politically European.

Originally Posted by Marulus

Who is "we"? Do you mean Swedes?

All Europeans.

Originally Posted by Marulus

There is no such such thing, unless you consider being of Europid ("white") race as something determining somebody's "European look". In that case many Berbers are Europeans too.

I mean you could mistake them for being from a country in southern Europe "proper". And thereby they look European obviously. I'm not saying there's one definition here.

[Marcus Marulus]

Originally Posted by EUNationalist

Of course there is such as thing. It's not about ideology. Not sure about the exact definition. For example Russia is currently considered mostly geographically European while a 100 years ago they were very much politically European.

You say there is such a thing as "politically European"? Then what is it? What exactly does it mean to be "politically European"?