Are Georgians and Armenians Europeans?

[Austrvegr]

Originally Posted by Kavkaz

I could, but all you need to do is look around Russia and see the half mongols walking around calling themselves Russians.

Russia has Mongoloid ethnic minorities but they are never called Russians in Russia, only in the West, where they call Russians all people from the former SU including Armenians and Georgians.

Originally Posted by Kavkaz

I do not need to bring you a source since I know you wont even read it,

I would certainly read it if it existed in reality, but it only exists in your imagination. BTW, Armenians are the last people to call someone half-Mongols, since they lived under direct Turco-Mongol rule for centuries and have more Turko-Mongol genes than even Anatolian Turks.

Originally Posted by Kavkaz

Lol ok. How about the REST of the Caucasian people? So I guess we are middle easterners and great Russia should leave the Caucasus alone and deal with all the land that is in Europe like Siberia and lands close to Mongolia. Europe first remember us middle easterners are will just cause problems for you.

Yes, all Caucasians are Middle Easterners, it's quite obvious. I agree that Russia should leave the Caucasus and deport all Caucasians from Russia back home.

[Lutiferre]

Originally Posted by Sergius

I believe it would be somehow meaningful to add the two countries under the umbrella of Orthodox sphere or Byzantine-influenced Eastern Europe.

One of these celebrations is not European - who can spot it?

Nr. 2?

If I am wrong, what is the point, they are more European than Bulgarians?

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by Sergius

One of these celebrations is not European - who can spot it?

For the first picture, dances in circles are typically of pre-Christian pagan origins, often as heliocentric (or androcentric) representations. They exist all throughout Europe, with ethnoregional variations.

For the third picture, such type of masks and accompanying paraphernalia is also of pre-Christian pagan origins, often to scare away the bad spirits.

For the second picture, I'm not sure but it looks more gynocentric.

[Kavkaz]

Originally Posted by Austrvegr

Russia has Mongoloid ethnic minorities but they are never called Russians in Russia, only in the West, where they call Russians all people from the former SU including Armenians and Georgians.

I live in the west, I would know better then you. No they do not call Armenians and Georgians Russian nor do they Ukrainians or Poles or Serbs. It is only in Russia though that they call Caucasians "Black ass" and have Skinheads like olig kostarev who is a mongoloid piece of Crap that kills them.

Originally Posted by Austrvegr

I would certainly read it if it existed in reality, but it only exists in your imagination. BTW, Armenians are the last people to call someone half-Mongols, since they lived under direct Turco-Mongol rule for centuries and have more Turko-Mongol genes than even Anatolian Turks.

OH WOW! This does not even deserve my brain function.

Originally Posted by Austrvegr

Yes, all Caucasians are Middle Easterners, it's quite obvious. I agree that Russia should leave the Caucasus and deport all Caucasians from Russia back home.

Neither does this.

[Austrvegr]

Originally Posted by Kavkaz

I live in the west, I would know better then you. No they do not call Armenians and Georgians Russian nor do they Ukrainians or Poles or Serbs.

Yes, they call all people from the former SU Russian. Look up the "Russian mafia", most have non-Russian names.

Originally Posted by Kavkaz

It is only in Russia though that they call Caucasians "Black ass" and have Skinheads like olig kostarev who is a mongoloid piece of Crap that kills them.

Oleg Kostarev is Udmurtian, and Udmurtians, although partly Asian, are nice people of European behavior, fully complementary to Russians, unlike Caucasians whose disgusting behavior is purely Middle Eastern/Negro. It is noteworthy that Caucasians never engage in any productive activities in Russia, what they do is mostly crime.

Originally Posted by Kavkaz

OH WOW! This does not even deserve my brain function.

Truth hurts, doesn't it? From what khanate do your ancestors come? Erivan, Nakhichevan?

Originally Posted by Kavkaz

Neither does this.

It does.

[Kavkaz]

Originally Posted by Austrvegr

Yes, they call all people from the former SU Russian. Look up the "Russian mafia", most have non-Russian names.

Yes I have looked up the "Russian mafia" and from what I understand they are Jews.

Originally Posted by Austrvegr

Oleg Kostarev is Udmurtian, and Udmurtians, although partly Asian, are nice people of European behavior, fully complementary to Russians,

Oh ofcourse you would accept mongoloid Asian. How dare I call Asians non Europeans. If I do this then that would make alot of "Russians" INCLUDING Skinheads nothing but mongoloid Tajik scum.

Originally Posted by Austrvegr

unlike Caucasians whose disgusting behavior is purely Middle Eastern/Negro. It is noteworthy that Caucasians never engage in any productive activities in Russia, what they do is mostly crime.

Oh ofcourse. When the Caucasian people no nothing but war caused by Russia they will not care much about crime.

Yes the Caucasians are evil and the mongoloid tajik skinheads that kill women, children usually a group of 20+ people against one is a good thing.

What Russian like you should learn is to not praise and love your Mongoloid neigbors and half mongoloid "brothers" and kill, rape and steal from the Caucasian people.

I get enough mongoloid loving here in Canada so I know quite well the mentality of these people.

Originally Posted by Austrvegr

Truth hurts, doesn't it? From what khanate do your ancestors come? Erivan, Nakhichevan?

What truth is that exactly? care to PROVE we are middle easterners? Just because Arabs took control of Armenian lands does not mean anything.
Armenians did not intermarry with muslims because they would be killed or disowned and stop being Armenians. This followed until the 19th century where killing an Armenian who married a muslim was retribution.

But again, a Russian calls Caucasian "black niggers" forgeting the fact that the Golden Horde had a field day within Russia and its women. I am not saying this because I am proud of what happened to Russia and Russian but because it is sad. And it is sad what happened in armenia and Anatolia.

But Russians like you are hypocrites. You would kill a Red headed Ingush and befriend an Asiatic mongol.

Originally Posted by Austrvegr

It does.

Im sure

[Austrvegr]

Originally Posted by Kavkaz

Yes I have looked up the "Russian mafia" and from what I understand they are Jews.

There are a lot of Caucasians also.

Originally Posted by Kavkaz

Oh ofcourse you would accept mongoloid Asian.

I will accept partly Asian indigenous ethnicities of Russia like Udmurtians. They are ok, unlike abominable Caucasians.

Originally Posted by Kavkaz

How dare I call Asians non Europeans. If I do this then that would make alot of "Russians" INCLUDING Skinheads nothing but mongoloid Tajik scum.

I have not mentioned any Tajiks. They are as disgusting as Caucasians, but they at least engage in some productive activities like construction and cleaning of streets. They still have no place in Russia, like Caucasians.

Originally Posted by Kavkaz

Oh ofcourse. When the Caucasian people no nothing but war caused by Russia they will not care much about crime.

Russia has not waged any wars in Azerbaijan or Armenia, but Azeris and Armenians are as criminal as Chechens.

Originally Posted by Kavkaz

Yes the Caucasians are evil and the mongoloid tajik skinheads that kill women, children usually a group of 20+ people against one is a good thing.

I have not seen any "mongoloid Tajik skinheads". Oleg Kostarev is Udmurtian.

Originally Posted by Kavkaz

What Russian like you should learn is to not praise and love your Mongoloid neigbors and half mongoloid "brothers" and kill, rape and steal from the Caucasian people.

It's Caucasian people who kill, rape and steal in Russia.

Originally Posted by Kavkaz

I get enough mongoloid loving here in Canada so I know quite well the mentality of these people.

I don't care abou Canada, I care about Russia. In Russia it's Caucasians who are the bale.

Originally Posted by Kavkaz

What truth is that exactly? care to PROVE we are middle easterners? Just because Arabs took control of Armenian lands does not mean anything.

Just because Armenians and all Caucasians are genetically Middle Eastern.

Eleven Y-SNP haplogroups (Fig. 1) were found in the Caucasus (Table 2, Fig. 1). The most frequent haplogroups were F*, G* and J2*; together the frequency of these three haplogroups was 0.53–0.86 in all groups except for the Darginians. Two of the three common Caucasus haplogroups (F* and J2*) are also common in Near Eastern populations Lebanese, Turks, Syrians (Semino et al. 2000), and Iranians (Wells et al. 2001), with average frequencies of 0.165 and 0.28, respectively, but present in lower frequencies in Europe (average frequencies 0.021 and 0.074, respectively). The third common Caucasus haplogroup, G*, is rare in Europe (frequency=0.061) and, in the Near East, has been reported only in the Turkish and Lebanese groups (Semino et al. 2000).

For the Y-chromosome, the Caucasus populations are more closely related to Near Eastern populations than to European populations. Evidence for this is provided by the higher diversity values and by the pairwise Fst values and MDS plot. In particular, the Caucasus appears to be a “break zone” in the Y-chromosome genetic landscape of Eurasia; haplogroups such as R1a1* are at a high frequency in East Europe but at low frequency in the Caucasus and the Near East, whereas haplogroups such as F* and J2* are common in the Caucasus and the Near East, but rare in Europe (Table 2, Fig. 1).

Ivan Nasidze, Tamara Sarkisian, Azer Kerimov, Mark Stoneking
Testing hypotheses of language replacement in the Caucasus: evidence from the Y-chromosome

http://www.eva.mpg.de/genetics/pdf/Y-paper.pdf


Arabs have nothing to do with it. Armenians were Middle Eastern from the very beginning. They are Hurrian Urartians who were forced to speak Indo-European by their conquerors.


Thus, all of the genetic evidence agrees that the Armenian and Azerbaijanian languages reflect language replacements, which occurred without any detectable genetic contribution of the original Indo-European and Turkic groups, respectively.

Ivan Nasidze, Tamara Sarkisian, Azer Kerimov, Mark Stoneking
Testing hypotheses of language replacement in the Caucasus: evidence from the Y-chromosome

http://www.eva.mpg.de/genetics/pdf/Y-paper.pdf

Originally Posted by Kavkaz

Armenians did not intermarry with muslims because they would be killed or disowned and stop being Armenians. This followed until the 19th century where killing an Armenian who married a muslim was retribution.

Armenian genetics tells a different story.





I.e. Armenians are more Turco-Mongol than Turks and are brothers of Mongoloid Tajiks.

Originally Posted by Kavkaz

But again, a Russian calls Caucasian "black niggers" forgeting the fact that the Golden Horde had a field day within Russia and its women. I am not saying this because I am proud of what happened to Russia and Russian but because it is sad. And it is sad what happened in armenia and Anatolia.

There is nothing to compare between Russia and Armenia. Unlike Armenia, Turco-Mongols never ruled Russia directly and never settled among Russians. But in Armenia we have quite a different story:


The Erivan (Yerevan) khanate(Persian: ایروان) (Turkish: Revan Hanlığı) was a Muslim controlled principality under the dominion of the Persian Empire between 1747 and 1828. Its territory roughly corresponded to most of present-day central Armenia, most of the Iğdır Province of present-day Turkey, and the Sharur and Sadarak rayons of present-day Azerbaijan's province of Nakhichevan. As a result of the Persian defeat in the last Russo-Persian War, it was ceded to the Russian Empire in accordance with the Treaty of Turkmenchay. Immediately following this, the territories of the former Yerevan khanate and the Nakhichevan khanate were joined to form the Armenian oblast.
During the existence of the Erivan khanate, its population consisted primarily of Armenians, Persians (settled largely around the capital), Turkic tribes (both settled and seminomadic), Kurds (largely nomadic).[1] Shia Islam was the predominate faith of the khanate (with some Kurds of the Sunni school). [1] Yazidis were also known to be numerous. [1] Armenians formed less than 20% of the population [1] as a result of Shah Abbas I's deportation of much of the Armenian population from the Ararat valley and the surrounding region in 1605.[2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erivan_khanate

Originally Posted by Kavkaz

But Russians like you are hypocrites. You would kill a Red headed Ingush and befriend an Asiatic mongol.

Ingushes are as alien to us than Asiatic Mongols, but they are more harmful at the moment.

[Theobald]

Weird, I always thought that Armenian people were the traditional ally of Russia in the South Caucasus (in particular against the Ottoman Empire)... Am I mistaken ?

[Kavkaz]

Originally Posted by Austrvegr

There are a lot of Caucasians also.

There are also alot of Russians, whats your point? That there are criminals in all societies. BRAVO you deserve Nobel Peace Prize.

Originally Posted by Austrvegr

I will accept partly Asian indigenous ethnicities of Russia like Udmurtians. They are ok, unlike abominable Caucasians.

I know you would, so do many Russians thats why I see so many halfbreed claiming to be full "slavic Russians" when infact they are nothing but mutts.

They are indigenous where? In Europe? No, in Europe the indigenous people are Europid. Oh you mean the vast expanse of Russia that is located in Asia. Then yes these Asians are indigenous to Asia who move to Moscow and kill other Caucasians "invaders". Do you see the hypocrisy or are you one of these Asiatics?

Originally Posted by Austrvegr

I have not mentioned any Tajiks. They are as disgusting as Caucasians, but they at least engage in some productive activities like construction and cleaning of streets. They still have no place in Russia, like Caucasians.

Oh I appologize. When i say "Tajik" I mean you, or maybe you are not a Tajik. When I say Tajik, I mean half mongoloid "Slavs". Russians have no place in the Caucasus. Cossacks though are a different story, I highly respect them.

Originally Posted by Austrvegr

Russia has not waged any wars in Azerbaijan or Armenia, but Azeris and Armenians are as criminal as Chechens.

No of course they just fueled the fire. Again friend I cannot find the amount of insight you have into world affairs. So you now REAFFIRM that there are criminals in all societies?! WOW! AMAZING work friend I bet it is your life legacy this new theory you are working on. BRAVO COMRAD!

Originally Posted by Austrvegr

I have not seen any "mongoloid Tajik skinheads". Oleg Kostarev is Udmurtian.

My apologies all Asians look the same to me, but with your extensive dealings and friendly ties with them you can tell the difference.

What about Artur Ryno, is he just a halfbreed too or just a Udmurtian?

And mongoloid is a racial classification of all Asiatics.

Originally Posted by Austrvegr

It's Caucasian people who kill, rape and steal in Russia.

I was highly mistake then. I thought it was a Russian that went around killing homeless people for every chess board piece. i thought it were Russian skinheads who killed infants on subways. My mistake.

Originally Posted by Austrvegr

I don't care abou Canada, I care about Russia. In Russia it's Caucasians who are the bale.

What "RUSSIA" is that? The Russian Federation that wants the Caucasus under its grasp that has uprooted the natives?. Is it the Russia that is located in Asia where the majority of the population are Asian or mixed? What Russia are you talking about exactly?

Originally Posted by Austrvegr

Just because Armenians and all Caucasians are genetically Middle Eastern.

Ofcourse we are.

Originally Posted by Austrvegr

Eleven Y-SNP haplogroups (Fig. 1) were found in the Caucasus (Table 2, Fig. 1). The most frequent haplogroups were F*, G* and J2*; together the frequency of these three haplogroups was 0.53–0.86 in all groups except for the Darginians. Two of the three common Caucasus haplogroups (F* and J2*) are also common in Near Eastern populations Lebanese, Turks, Syrians (Semino et al. 2000), and Iranians (Wells et al. 2001), with average frequencies of 0.165 and 0.28, respectively, but present in lower frequencies in Europe (average frequencies 0.021 and 0.074, respectively). The third common Caucasus haplogroup, G*, is rare in Europe (frequency=0.061) and, in the Near East, has been reported only in the Turkish and Lebanese groups (Semino et al. 2000).

Well lets see it says that there are common haplogroups found in "Near Easterns" Mostly Lebanon, Turkey, Syria and Iranians. Well there is also a sizable Armenian and Georgian and Circassian populations in those Areas. These populations also have had genetical mixing from Hittites and Greeks, and are not Arabs only speak Arabic. As for Iranians, the ossetians are an Iranic people so I suspect there would be links with the other iranic minorites in Iran who have stayed genetically similar to Ossetians who have not mixed with Arabs and Dravids.

It also say that the Caucasian population is separate from anyone else, Europe, Asia, Near East. Well yes we are. I am sure if you do a genetic test of the Basque you will find they are separate from anyone else around them.... OH WAIT THEY HAVE DONE IT.

Originally Posted by Austrvegr

For the Y-chromosome, the Caucasus populations are more closely related to Near Eastern populations than to European populations. Evidence for this is provided by the higher diversity values and by the pairwise Fst values and MDS plot. In particular, the Caucasus appears to be a “break zone” in the Y-chromosome genetic landscape of Eurasia; haplogroups such as R1a1* are at a high frequency in East Europe but at low frequency in the Caucasus and the Near East, whereas haplogroups such as F* and J2* are common in the Caucasus and the Near East, but rare in Europe (Table 2, Fig. 1).

R1a2 is the highest haplogroup in Armenia which is also one in Europe.

It already said the caucasus populations are separate onto themselves with these haplogroups not being found anyway where else in the world and only in Turkey, Iran, Lebanon and Syria. Places where Armenians, Georgians, Circassians, Ossetians have large populations. Like Laz (Georgians) Talysh (Related to Ossetians) Hamshen (Armenians) and the populations that have stayed in those lands for hundreds of years.

Ivan Nasidze, Tamara Sarkisian, Azer Kerimov, Mark Stoneking
Testing hypotheses of language replacement in the Caucasus: evidence from the Y-chromosome

http://www.eva.mpg.de/genetics/pdf/Y-paper.pdf

Originally Posted by Austrvegr

Arabs have nothing to do with it. Armenians were Middle Eastern from the very beginning. They are Hurrian Urartians who were forced to speak Indo-European by their conquerors.

LOL! Middle Easterners are Arabs, Semites, Armenians are neither. Urartians were proto-Caucasian speaking people who mixed with Phrygians.

Originally Posted by Austrvegr

Thus, all of the genetic evidence agrees that the Armenian and Azerbaijanian languages reflect language replacements, which occurred without any detectable genetic contribution of the original Indo-European and Turkic groups, respectively.

Oh ok so it says EXACTLY what I said. Urartians who were caucasian speaking people mixed with Phrygians to get their indo-European langauge. BRAVO. Oh wait you have more that Caucasian Albanians mixed with Seljuk Turks to become Azeris and speak Turkic. BRAVO! Amazing!

Originally Posted by Austrvegr

Armenian genetics tells a different story.

It said NOTHING about Armenia.

Originally Posted by Austrvegr

"Posterior distributions of the Central Asian admixture ESTIMATES"

So to prove it you give me estimate? Whats the source?

Originally Posted by Austrvegr

I.e. Armenians are more Turco-Mongol than Turks and are brothers of Mongoloid Tajiks.

OH WOW! WOW! WOW! WOW!. I never thought i would meet a brain dead like yourself. i am always surprised with people like you though.

Originally Posted by Austrvegr

There is nothing to compare between Russia and Armenia. Unlike Armenia, Turco-Mongols never ruled Russia directly and never settled among Russians. But in Armenia we have quite a different story:


The Erivan (Yerevan) khanate(Persian: ایروان) (Turkish: Revan Hanlığı) was a Muslim controlled principality under the dominion of the Persian Empire between 1747 and 1828. Its territory roughly corresponded to most of present-day central Armenia, most of the Iğdır Province of present-day Turkey, and the Sharur and Sadarak rayons of present-day Azerbaijan's province of Nakhichevan. As a result of the Persian defeat in the last Russo-Persian War, it was ceded to the Russian Empire in accordance with the Treaty of Turkmenchay. Immediately following this, the territories of the former Yerevan khanate and the Nakhichevan khanate were joined to form the Armenian oblast.
During the existence of the Erivan khanate, its population consisted primarily of Armenians, Persians (settled largely around the capital), Turkic tribes (both settled and seminomadic), Kurds (largely nomadic).[1] Shia Islam was the predominate faith of the khanate (with some Kurds of the Sunni school). [1] Yazidis were also known to be numerous. [1] Armenians formed less than 20% of the population [1] as a result of Shah Abbas I's deportation of much of the Armenian population from the Ararat valley and the surrounding region in 1605.[2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erivan_khanate

Oh I m sure. You never heard of "The Golden Horde"? Whats your point Spain, Portugal, Southern Italy has also been ruled by Arabs.

And i thought you just said Armenians are not related to Arabs.

Originally Posted by Austrvegr

Ingushes are as alien to us than Asiatic Mongols, but they are more harmful at the moment.

You are a total tool my friend.

Edit: I just wanted ask, why is it that it is only Russians who accuse Armenians of this and that. Why is it that the French who are not saying this even though there is a huge Armenian population there?