German-French dispute on Alsace and Lorraine [split from: Germany united? What if?]

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by Lutiferre

I maintain this: there is hardly much cultural difference between Southern Jutland and the German part of Jutland, in the first place.

Whereas, France and Germany, are much more different.

France and Germany? You know, it is of France and Alsace, or Germany and Alsace that we are speaking here, as we are speaking of Denmark and Schleswig, or Germany and Schleswig.

Not France and Germany, and Germany and Denmark.

And, as it happens, there is hardly much cultural difference between Alsacia and other Northern regions of France. Except for the small detail that some Alsatians still speak Alsatian Alemannic, a dialect which is not of a Romance substratum as it is French.

Notice that I don't mention Lorraine often, because the numbers of Lorraine Alemannic speakers in the region is even lower than that of Alsatian Alemannic speakers in Alsatia. And, again, you will not find a much difference between Lorraine and other Northern regions of France.

Theoretically, Norway and Southern Sweden are a legacy of Denmark. But, then, there isnt much difference between Danes and Swedes - certainly not as much as there is between Germans and French.

That's hardly an answer to the question, but a prelude to an excuse. Which, as I've argued above, it is flawed because it is not Germany and France that are being compared.

Then you are mistaken, and is underestimating the factor of the level of difference between the involved nations.

It is not a nationalist point of view that you are attempting to present, but a pan-nationalist. Which is, again, flawed because we are not even comparing nation to nation, but nation to territory..

Whether they are Danish or German is of little relevance. Except for the language differences (which are even at the level where, since both are Germanic, there is much shared vocabulary and mutual understanding and loans and other interactions), there is no stone hard distinction. And there is, with the French and Germans.

... and again.

Which makes it much clearer, that Alsatians are German, and not French.

I haven't made up my mind yet. But if it is your arguments that I should use to do it, I still can't see one which is consistent.

Most Danes dont care.

Both nationalistic and not?

[Gavril]

Originally Posted by Menydh

the annexation of Northern Schleswig by Germany?

What difference does it make? This is why I usually care little for mainstream "nationalist" politics - S-H doesn not mean anything to Denmark, and no one cares about, aside from jokes, similar to those about the so-called "Danish" part of Sweden, which is equally as Danish, i.e., not Danish.
Is this really what matters to you as a Danish nationalist? Some more Juttish fields? As far as I remember, there are plenty of them as it is.

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by Sergius

What difference does it make?

Don't get me wrong. I understand irredentism as a natural consequence of nationalism. And as a matter of fact I am much of an irredentist myself. But it must be consequential.

[Marcus Marulus]

Originally Posted by Menydh

And as a matter of fact I am much of an irredentist myself. But it must be consequential.

Really? Which territories would you claim? I guess, Roussillon and Lower Navarre.

[Aemilius]

Originally Posted by Sergius

What difference does it make? This is why I usually care little for mainstream "nationalist" politics - S-H doesn not mean anything to Denmark, and no one cares about, aside from jokes, similar to those about the so-called "Danish" part of Sweden, which is equally as Danish, i.e., not Danish.
Is this really what matters to you as a Danish nationalist? Some more Juttish fields? As far as I remember, there are plenty of them as it is.

You are wrong that it is "not Danish". It is not so much that, as it is that, its of little consequence.

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by Arthur Gordon Pym

Really? Which territories would you claim? I guess, Roussillon and Lower Navarre.

Rosselló, Lapurdi, Zuberoa and Baja Navarra.

[Aemilius]

Originally Posted by Sergius

... no one cares about, aside from jokes ..

Correct: nation and heritage is in Denmark more frequently joked about than anything else. Except for that, Schleswig-Holstein has become especially meaningless, and no one cares.

Originally Posted by Sergius

Is this really what matters to you as a Danish nationalist? Some more Juttish fields? As far as I remember, there are plenty of them as it is.

I wouldnt declare myself a Danish nationalist.
But, no, that would not be my priority.

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by Menydh

Rosselló, Lapurdi, Zuberoa and Baja Navarra.

I didn't mention Gibraltar because I don't consider it irredentism. Gibraltar is terra irredenta and as such it should be redeemed. But the people there are settlers whose only possible redemption should be deportation.

[Susi]

Originally Posted by Menydh

I didn't mention Gibraltar because I don't consider it irredentism. Gibraltar is terra irredenta and as such it should be redeemed. But the people there are settlers whose only possible redemption should be deportation.

Pff but but..

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by Susi

Pff but but..

... what?

[Susi]

Originally Posted by Menydh

... what?

nothing. i'd rather have edinburgh. it's better. ^^

[Carnyx]

The tittle is incorrect... It is about Alsace-Moselle, not Alsace-Lorraine. It is a common mistake that even Frenchmen do. Both Paris and Germany believe we spoke German everywhere in Lorraine.

Originally Posted by Savorgnan

Almost nobody talks Alsacian anymore.

Hmm, not quite true. Alsatian is not Occitan. It is not as if nobody speaks it anymore. If you go to the countryside, you can hear it a lot (especially in the villages). I was address in Alsatian a countless times. On the other hand, the youngsters don't speak it much anymore, that is true.


But anyway, it is not everyone's concerns, is it? I like a place where everyone sweeps around his own front door. I don't know of many Europeans who could give us lessons about territorial rights and certainly not Germans.

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by Susi

nothing. i'd rather have edinburgh. it's better. ^^

Not really better. From what I've heard it is a queer city. But anyway, you should have none.

[Dr Fred]

Originally Posted by Waarnemer

Although more then a few areas in Wallonia should preferably before that event be returned to Flanders/Netherlands, including French Flanders in France, a great part of Nord-Pas-de-Calais, as far south as Etaples.

Yet, French cultural and linguistic imperialism, still today pushes for a border more and more north.

Well I don't know any Walloon part wanting to be attached to Flanders, especially since Vlaams Belang blame Wallonia for its poor economy, and ironically the poorest region of Wallonia (Hainault) is the closest culturally to Flanders (Tournai and Mons have clearly Flemish architecture). Yet many northern French Flemish would like to join Flanders especially in Bergue and Dunkerque, but the Flemish consider them French due to language. There is still that dispute between centralist jacobinist parisians who want to consider the north as a funny and vulgar "chtimi" culture and destroy its Flemish past as we can see in a recent movie, and the anti-jacobinists.

Originally Posted by Agrippa

There are in Belgium clearly