Catalan Nationalism?

[Menydh]

A Congolese, affiliated to the so-called nationalist independentist party ERC (Catalan Republican Left); one Moroccan and his two sisters, all supporters of the independence of Catalonia; one Senegalese, about to affiliate to ERC.

Judge for yourselves
[media]http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=bUwDdWpxAHQ[/media]


p.s. I'm surprised that Lutiferre is not in the group too!

[Pirate]

It's funny how certain 'nationalisms' in Europe are somehow supported by multiculturalists, like Catalan one. No one here (from liberal or whatever anti-nationalist ranks) would attack Catalan 'nationalism' with same arguments as nationalism in general (creates wars, 'hate', the usual...). A modern world kind of nationalism.

[Ferran]

I'm not surprised by that video. The very origins of Catalan separatism are to be found in Freemasonry and its globalist ideology. Even their proposed flag for an independent Catalonia recognizes them:



You can very well notice that this flag is a copy of the current Cuban flag, and indeed, its creators got the inspiration from Cuban independentists after they got the independence from Spain.

So well, now that we are at it, let's take a look at the usual descriptions of the flag of Cuba:

The three blue stripes are the symbols of the original three provinces. The triangle is a masonic symbol, here signifying liberty, equality and fraternity. The red color is for the blood sacrificed by the Cuban patriots.

cuba flags .com - History of Cuban flag and emblems

Speaking of triangles, you can as well notice that the independentist party they talk about in the video is quite fond of them, as they proudly show it in their logo:



Also, is relevant to mention that during the 30's (few years before the start of the Civil War), the extreme majority of the high positions of this party were freemasons themselves. And while there's not much of information about the affiliation of the current ones, it's well known that they are the only "Spanish" party that in the last years has called the government for damnifications coming from the older laws against "communism and freemasonry" written during the Francoist era.

[Savorgnan]

May I enlight our Temple, and help you build your pyramids, my brothers, but just take a look at that.

The French territorial administration:

[Lutiferre]

Originally Posted by Menydh

p.s. I'm surprised that Lutiferre is not in the group too!

What a childish remark. Just because I didnt take your side of Basque separatism, which hurt your ego?

From the Catalans I've spoken with, they have a strong identity of their own, which you obviously cant take - but whether this is enough grounds for a nationalism in the strict sense would be up to the Catalans themselves, not some Moroccan or black immigrants as shown in this video clip.

[Routasydän]

Too bad the Spanish have such trouble sticking together.

Makes you wonder on the validity of Spanish nationalism, and a Spanish ethnicity in this day and age.

[Breogan]

Originally Posted by M.R.

It's funny how certain 'nationalisms' in Europe are somehow supported by multiculturalists, like Catalan one. No one here (from liberal or whatever anti-nationalist ranks) would attack Catalan 'nationalism' with same arguments as nationalism in general (creates wars, 'hate', the usual...). A modern world kind of nationalism.

Yes, and even more funny that they are "nationalists" and "socialists" at the same time, some claiming "marxists" as well. They are plain separatists, so they don't deserve to be called "nationalists" while working for Catalan ethnic cleansing and splitting from Spain just will increase that and not the other way around.

[Mediterraneo]

The problem of those separatists is clear, they have to recruit people from two "social groups": the immigrants and the descendants of andalusian workers who came here 20 years ago.

That's why they spend thousands of euros in those campaigns of linguistic awareness, if you understand and speak Catalan you are Catalan.

But we don't have to worry about the possibility of a secession, if the Spanish State continues giving money, the will stay in the State, all the separatism in Spain is about money, no language, no culture, no oppression, just money.

[BeliAndjeo]

Originally Posted by Menydh

A Congolese, affiliated to the so-called nationalist independentist party ERC (Catalan Republican Left); one Moroccan and his two sisters, all supporters of the independence of Catalonia; one Senegalese, about to affiliate to ERC.

Judge for yourselves
YouTube - Entrelínies: Immigrants independentistes


p.s. I'm surprised that Lutiferre is not in the group too!

Hmm,i don't understand what this guys is saying but, from your comments and words i can understand,they want to break up Spain apart like terrorists in Basque?!? Can't you arrest him for such ideas or something? Isn't it agains your the highest law,constitution?And be strong,don't even allow this movements,we made big mistake when we allowed Albanians on Kosovo and Metohija similar things like this one...and now you see what is happening..Of course,you are Spain and we are just Serbia,but how you seed,you will harvest when time comes for harvest,if you understand me...We allowed Albanians autonomy and they took our holy land and only way to retake it back is by war and how we have similar movements in Vojvodina where live significant number of Hungarians and as i heard yesterday,they want teritorial autonomy for them!!!!!!..Well, i can give them only autonomy of using my shit for dinner and that is too much for them...Stay together,hold the lines,don't allow them to develop more

[Mediterraneo]

Originally Posted by BeliAndjeo

Hmm,i don't understand what this guys is saying but, from your comments and words i can understand,they want to break up Spain apart like terrorists in Basque?!?

The bases of that parties (young people) want the independence, but not the leaders, that leaders know the expensive consequences of that secession.

Can't you arrest him for such ideas or something?

No, the Spanish Constitution allows the Freedom of speech and thought. You will only be arrested by the methods that you use to defend your ideas, and they know tricks to attack the Spanish symbology without being arrested.

You can be a separatist, say it, defend you thoughts, other thing is to put bombs and kill people.

[Ferran]

Originally Posted by Sinergia

The problem of those separatists is clear, they have to recruit people from two "social groups": the immigrants and the descendants of andalusian workers who came here 20 years ago.

Indeed, they target people who find themselves in a unknown envioriment and are in the need of "belonging" to a grup, whatever that group is. At the same time, immigrants think that they will gain more acceptance by the locals (even if independentists are quite a minority) by defending that, but don't you think for a moment that they are going to learn a line of the history of Catalonia. Useful idiots they are.

But we don't have to worry about the possibility of a secession

Of course not, you just have to look at the last national elections in which ERC had the highest fiasco since 2003 (the year in which they started having some political success). It shows that even common peple can realize that their leaders are a bunch of hypocrites and manipulators, who have no problems in allying with Spanish-wide parties or going to television saying that "an independent Catalonia would have good relations with Spain, as we all have common goals" while writing in a book an entire chapter titled "we want no business from Spain" (© Carod Rovira, the half-Aragonese immigrant and party president).

all the separatism in Spain is about money, no language, no culture, no oppression, just money.

I will not deny that. Separatist mythology focuses many of its efforts in manipulating economical data, as the famous: "Madrid steals our money", "an independent Catalonia would be the richest mini-state"... Phrases which show a total lack of vision and a deep ignorance on Spanish economical issues, but which happen to be "catchy" enough to manipulate some misinformed Catalan, and that's exatly their purpose.

[BeliAndjeo]

Originally Posted by Sinergia

The bases of that parties (young people) want the independence, but not the leaders, that leaders know the expensive consequences of that secession.



No, the Spanish Constitution allows the Freedom of speech and thought. You will only be arrested by the methods that you use to defend your ideas, and they know tricks to attack the Spanish symbology without being arrested.

You can be a separatist, say it, defend you thoughts, other thing is to put bombs and kill people.

I thought that i don't hate anybody,but now i see that i am wrong;i hate separatists.

[Pirate]

Originally Posted by Lutiferre

From the Catalans I've spoken with, they have a strong identity of their own, which you obviously cant take - but whether this is enough grounds for a nationalism in the strict sense would be up to the Catalans themselves, not some Moroccan or black immigrants as shown in this video clip.

Well their identity (of Catalans, I'm not speaking for your friends here only) or identity of being Catalan seems a little bit confusing (don't know what term would fit in better) as they (Catalan 'nationalists') accept immigrants into their ranks and are somewhat considered 'Catalan', while obviously no one sane would consider them as Spanish. It makes you question whether it really is a 'national' identity and whether Catalan 'nationalism' exists.

[Ferran]

That's the oldest reference we have of the existance of the flag with the star, a stamp on a text written by a small group of early Catalan separatists. It's funny that it had to be a text with not a single word in Catalan and in praise of a well known liar, Woodrow Wilson, who joined WWI by faking the sinking of the Lusitania (that, even if he got elected by the promise that he would keep the USA out of the war).