Vive la Wallonie libre!

[Marulus]

Vive la Wallonie libre!

Daniel Hannan

11 Nov 2007

The French are coming around to the idea of annexing Wallonia. According to a new opinion poll, 54 per cent of French voters favour “rattachement", with the strongest support in France’s northerly provinces.



Wallonia may join France if the Flemish decide to go it alone

It’s an interesting finding. Separatist feeling is concentrated in Flanders, much the more prosperous part of Belgium, whose inhabitants feel that their taxes are funding an engorged state payroll in the Francophone bit.

The Flemish, in short, are confident that they could go it alone – or, if they preferred, to enter into some kind of confederation with the Netherlands (an option which, according to the polls, is attractive to Dutch voters). The problem, as Paul Belien argues (with the aid of some delightful maps) is what would happen to Wallonia? Would it break apart? Would it try to make a go of statehood? Or would it seek union with its larger neighbour?

And, if it did, would the French accept? On the one hand, Nicolas Sarkozy must be tempted by the prospect of becoming the first President since Clemenceau to extend the French territory (unless one counts some land in the Antarctic). On the other, he won’t want to absorb three million socialist voters, with an unusually high level of welfare dependency.

My guess is that, in the event that Belgium sunders, there will indeed be some kind of political union between France and Wallonia – a French foreign policy goal since Bonaparte. But it’s a pity. The countries which do best, these days, are small, agile ones. The break-up of Belgium would mean the end of the large bureaucratic class that sustains it, and the subventions used by that class to buy support. Rattachement would recreate the problem.

Among nations, as among individuals, it is those who are made dependent on grants who suffer most, not those who pay them. The best thing that could happen to the Walloons is the removal the socialist leaders who have impoverished them, and a return to the bourgeois values that their grandfathers took for granted. If they play this right, French-speaking Belgians could, as I have argued before, be the chief beneficiaries of a break-up.

[source]

[Menydh]

I too believe that the Walloons could be the main beneficiaries of a break-up, above the Flemish.

Though not through a state of total independence. While it is true that small states (such as Liechtenstein) have been fairing extremely well through long time, it is also true that such states have long established --and therefore solid and stable-- commercial and financial structures that have been the key to their relative success.

An independent Wallonia would still have to create such structures... and hope that they would work in a rapidly changing Europe. Or it could wrap itself around Brussels, and stagnate as a peripheral region for eurocracy services provider. With the many consequences that this would entail.

On the other end, the same that the author mentions a confederation system of Flanders with The Netherlands, a possibility for Wallonia could be a similar deal with France. Easy to be beneficial for the Walloons.

The details of such a deal, however, are important as they could spark the debate about other regions now a part of the French State, but with mixed ethnic influences or own ethnic identity. Or at the very least, given than any deal of reunion would undoubtedly be done under special circumstances which are unlikely to be covered by the Constitution of the French Republic, it would require a reform of the Constitution and consequently create a precedent that could be used by other territories.

As for Flanders, the article mentions a supposed excitement about a confederation from the Dutch. But it doesn't say a word on the feelings of the Flemish.

All in all, an interesting news article if it was not meant to be an analysis, even if only a summarized one.

[Berrocscir]

Are not the Flemish too independently minded to join the Dutch?

[Savorgnan]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

I too believe that the Walloons could be the main beneficiaries of a break-up, above the Flemish.

Likely, because the Flemish will only be "relieved" of Wallonia's weight. The Wallons will be forced to make a socio-economical refoundation, for their own good.

Originally Posted by Mynydd

On the other end, the same that the author mentions a confederation system of Flanders with The Netherlands, a possibility for Wallonia could be a similar deal with France. Easy to be beneficial for the Walloons.

No. The concept of confederation is not soluble in France's DNA. If the Wallons think they have a "French future", they better have to be aware that there will be no alternative to a full and complete integration. In case that they don't want to be absorbed, they will have to exist by themselves ( and still some EU's help ), as a Wallon State. It will be a clear choice.

Originally Posted by Mynydd

The details of such a deal, however, are important as they could spark the debate about other regions now a part of the French State, but with mixed ethnic influences or own ethnic identity. Or at the very least, given than any deal of reunion would undoubtedly be done under special circumstances which are unlikely to be covered by the Constitution of the French Republic, it would require a reform of the Constitution and consequently create a precedent that could be used by other territories.

I think that the absorbtion of Wallonia will be, on the contrary, a display of France's unity. The realisation of one of De Gaulle's wishes will make independantists claims ( such as Breton, Savoyard or Basque ) more unpopular than ever.

[svin]

How strong is immigration in Wallonia in comparison with France?

[Savorgnan]

Originally Posted by svin

How strong is immigration in Wallonia in comparison with France?

Unfortunately, strong enough to be compared with. Wallonia is no exception to the Western-European area.

[Menydh]

The discussion on Spain has been split and moved to a new thread: National vs territorial identity in Spain

[Youenn]

Originally Posted by Savorgnan

I think that the absorbtion of Wallonia will be, on the contrary, a display of France's unity. The realisation of one of De Gaulle's wishes will make independantists claims ( such as Breton, Savoyard or Basque ) more unpopular than ever.

I don't think so. On the contrary the example of Flanders and nextly the Scottish example show independence is not totally unrealistic.
Of course, it's another story with the French Republic.

[Tryggr]

I don't have access to the correct statistics right now, since I'm at university, but I hope I can answer some of the questions raised here anyway from the Flemish point of view.

Would Wallony be better off on its own or coupled with France?

That I think is a question the French and Walloons can answer better by themselves. The past decades Wallony has only stayed afloat by monetary support from Brussels and Flanders, but the past 2-3 years they've grown quite fast. Their main problem currently is that a huge part of the region is devotedly loyal to the socialist party, even as the corruption scandals keep showing up one after the other. However, political affiliations change.

So overall I think it would be wrong to underestimate the Walloons. But unless they work hard on their own identity, a rattachement would be the better solution for them in my opinion.

As for Brussels.

Enlarging Wallony until it goes around Brussels, I will never tolerate. It is something not a single Flemish (nationalist or otherwise) will tolerate. Even the Green party who are so very close to Wallony otherwise, will never vote for such a move.

Brussels was originally a Flemish town called Broekzele. Because of inaction in the past we lost that already to a ruling class of French-speaking bureaucrats. The towns surrounding Brussels however are still Flemish. Those towns remaining Flemish is a conditio sine qua non for any negotiations.

I myself am quite moderate concerning Brussels I must admit. As I see it, the city is lost to us anyway. So I don't care whether it becomes a third indepent part after the breakup of Belgium, or whether it becomes a part of Wallony surrounded by Flemish land, I don't care personally. Repopulation of the city by a Flemish majority would be an ideal, but it's not worth the price it would most likely cost in my opinion.

To me, what happens with a place like Voeren is much more important than what happens with Brussels. In Voeren, the Flemish culture is still surviving. Even if it's nearly drawing its last breaths there.

I am reluctant to say what the majority of Flemish think on this point however. I would need to see it in statistics and polls. But I believe that not all too many care that much for Brussels anymore. The general census among the circles I hang out in is that Brussels is a lost cause.

Flanders? Indepent or a United Netherlands?

As for Flanders, the article mentions a supposed excitement about a confederation from the Dutch. But it doesn't say a word on the feelings of the Flemish.

The people who support a reunion with the Dutch are a minority among Flemish nationalists. Most fear that should Flanders join with the Netherlands, we will simply become the pawns of the Dutch.

And I -think- that a big part of the Dutch who wouldn't mind a reunion also haven't thought it through completely. Will they offer to give Flanders some kind of regional autonomy in the Netherlands?

If not, the Flemish majority will never accept. If yes, how do we know it won't turn out the same as Belgium? And also, if yes, would that mean that places like Friesland or Limburg who also differ slightly from Mainstream Dutch society would receive the same autonomy if they ask for it?

I believe there are only very few nationalist groups in Flanders who support an unconditional reunion. Voorpost is the most vocal example. They lack the numbers to really make a difference though.

Having said that, I personally would prefer if Flanders and Netherlands would at the very least work very closely together. A reunion would be a possibility for me, but only with guarantees that we will be treated equal to any other Dutchman.

[Menydh]

The question is which kind of guarantees would be seen as guarantee enough --excuse the redundancy here.

[Tryggr]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

The question is which kind of guarantees would be seen as guarantee enough --excuse the redundancy here.

It's hard to immediately come up with hard guarantees. But I can give some large lines along which I'm thinking. These are my opinions, not those of all Flemish of course.

But first of all, linguistic. I would say that Flemish be tolerated as an official language together with Dutch. Or at least as an official variant of Dutch. But that shouldn't be a problem. Most Dutch dictionaries already contain many Flemish words, labeling it as South-Dutch. Works for me.

I remember my elementary school teacher explaining us how in the time Flanders was with the Netherlands (1815-1830) Flemish were discriminated when going for public offices since according to the Dutch our knowledge of the language was too little. I never found out if it's true, or if it was typical Belgian propaganda. But a situation like this should be avoided completely.

I don't know how the situation currently goes in Friesland. I believe their own West Frisian language has a special status as well. Perhaps that could be used as a model for the status of Flemish.

Secondly, economically. The harbours of Rotterdam and Antwerpen would suddenly both fall under the same government. Given the competition there, we'd need guarantees the Dutch don't try to end the Antverpian harbour, which would effectively kill off a huge part of the entire Flemish economy. If they allowed us to finally finish the Iron Rhine, that would be much obliged as well.

The economic part for me is quite important, given my background in economics and logistics.

Thirdly, there's still this slightly religious disagreement between catholics and protestants. It's one of the reasons why we separated in the first place. I personally don't care for this, as I'm not christian, but many Flemish nationalists are. So if the Dutch government would decide to take certain rights away from the Catholic church, that could lead to a pretty big schism.

I am unsure if the current generation cares much for this third part. But people of my grandparents' and maybe parents' generation wouldn't like being subject to a protestant king unless they can be certain their religion won't be touched.

-

Many other flemish focus too much on the small differences and stereotypes. Such as they Dutchmen are more like cheapskates (I'm not saying they are, but it's the stereotype here) and that they live in these tiny rented homes, while many Flemish live in relatively large, self-owned houses.

But in my opinion those differences are not important enough to disallow our reunion as a people.