More on the question of the Breton and Gallic identity

[Carnyx]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

If you want to defend a multi-ethnic France, then, that's you choice.

You're making wrong assumptions.
First, one cannot defend or save what is clearly agonizing. Then I'm myself only peripheral French. Last, if your only alternative to cosmopolitism and multi-culturalism-racialism is primitivism, it worries me. We need a powerful Europe with strong nations, not a conglomerate of microscopic tribes with a contempt for each others.

Europe, France, etc. they would never have had such a destiny if they had remained at this stage.

Hehe. Not really my cup of tea.
BTW, it reminds me of some Identitarians who are (sort of) playing the race card in France.

[Cirrus]

Originally Posted by Carnyx

You're making wrong assumptions.
First, one cannot defend or save what is cleary agonizing. Then I'm myself only peripheral French.

We agree here. But then, what do we need to defend or save in modern France (this not being a rhetorical question) ?
I would also add that now, it is France that is lost, but in some years, it will be the whole Europe that will know the same situation.

Originally Posted by Carnyx

Last, if your only alternative to cosmopolitism and multi-culturalism-racialism is primitivism, it worries me. We need a powerful Europe with strong nations, not a conglomerate of microscopic tribes with a contempt for each others.

Europe, France, etc. they would never have had such a destiny if they had remained at this stage.

It has nothing to do with primitivism. That's what I meant by French spirit : to always to see the concept of identity as something negative. We can see it nowadays with the strong criticism of "communautarism" by all the French intellectuals and statesmen. But this concept is, I think, a basis of survive for us in a multicultural society.

I also would like to see a powerful Europe, economically, military and geopolitically speaking. But only if this Europe would be respectfull with our nationalities and cultures. I'm distrustfull because some have often see the unity of Europe as a first step to globalism.
I am for a form of unity between Europeans, and not a contempt of any sort between our nations. Of course, there is the exemple of Yugoslavia, but what about the WW1 and WW2 ? It is the proof that either we were in small or big structures, Europeans have always known war between them.

But now, we are here, in the XXIthe century. What can we do when the society is hostile to our ideas ? Then, my reflexion on identity is mostly focused on the subject of our survival in a multicultural society. The "Europe Puissance" can wait some time then, because it will be impossible in the modern and liberal E.U to see it. That's why the NR, as exemple, who always focus on the subject of a geopolical Eurasia, are irrelevant here.

Originally Posted by Carnyx

Hehe. Not really my cup of tea.
BTW, it reminds me of some Identitarians who are (sort of) playing the race card in France.

Indeed. The Identitarians have some good ideas, but it seems they only focus on concepts and ideas, or cultural actions, while it would be better if they made something more political.

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

And it is not sure that this language was influenced by the Germanic Burgundian language : it seems in fact that the Francoprovençal language is in fact closer to the Burgundian.

That's interesting. Well, I don't know much about Burgundians other than they were an East Germanic nation-tribe. But if their case was anything similar to that of the Goths, then it is probable that by the time that they settled in that region they spoke some form of Late Latin or partly romanced language.

As for the rest, I think that both of you (Cirrus and Carnyx) have a point. Even where your points do not fully coincide.

As for the Identitarians, a huge mistake is to pretend to apply one model to follow everywhere in Europe, which does not take into account the individual characteristics of each Identity.

During some identitarian convention recently, they played the fool when they assumed what no one had told them to assume about some group that they had invited in. Not to speak of public comments made by someone that gave support to a left multiculturalist group. So even the presumed "cultural" aspect of the identitarians can be argued.

[Youenn]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

You mean that the Bourgognons have never been a distinct identity, that they never formed one, else? or just that it doesn't compare to the Breton for some... [explain] reason?

I mean the Bourguignons are culturally french, they surely had a distinct identity before but I think it was more an identity based on a state, like the Luxembourgers.

Originally Posted by Cirrus

Yes, of course, there's an evident specificity, but Breton nationalism is often based on a discover of Breton history : "la découverte ou l'ignorance". It is an important element.

When I read the book of Morvan, I didn't have the same feeling about his famous sentence. History is an important element but language is also important too.

You are wrong here : the Langue d'oïl is used in Eastern Brittany by the people since the Middle Ages. It is true that "Gallo" means "French", but they are considered Bretons by everyone nowadays. But, in the same time, you should recognize that they speak a Gallo-Romance language natively.

The problem is : What's the border ?
You surely will say the linguistic border of Plouha/Vannes. Why stop at this limit ? Because this limit dates to 50 years ago, it was the beginning of the mass media (radio, tv) in french and the beginning of full frenchization ? But if this beginning existed today, the border will be more in the west and I will become a "gallo" and my friends from Guilvinec or Brest will be the only "true breton"...
I know who used this border to his advantage; I will not fall in this trap.

At least for some eastern Bretons (or "Gallo-Bretons"), it seems to be. If they don't want to learn a language (Breton) which is not part of their own History.

I will not blame them but like I said I've never meet one of them in movement, political or cultural.

I don't really understand what you mean here, but if the "Gallos" spoked a Celtic/Armorican language close of Breton, it was also true for all the Western French people living near the Channel (Normandy, Maine, Anjou...). And those people are not Bretons, of course. Here, History and Geography play an important role in identity.

Contrary to Normandy, Maine or Anjou, the Breton migration in eastern Brittany was much more important and the Breton language was spoken in Eastern Brittany.

This fascination for exotism and foreign cultures, especially in Brittany, has, of course, nothing to do with an ethnic specificity. You can see the same phenomenom everywhere in France.

It is true that some regions are more concerned (Brittany especially) but, and I am sorry to say that, it seems that it is mostly due to the weight and particularity of the Catholic religion in Western France and its political form, the Christian democracy.
Because the thing is that when this region became less and less Christian and more secular, during the 60's, this Catholic tradition has transformed into a specific sort of "humanist" secular tradition. This is why Bretons are known for being tolerant people, anti-extremists, politically moderate, etc...

Indeed, this observation already was admitted many times even by a catholic traditionalist in Adsav forum.

Anyway, what's linked to this thread ?

Yes, that's why I would have rather advocate a Breiz-Izel nationalism in those times. But it's too late know.

Well, It's too late and before everything I've never heard people tried to make something like this.

Originally Posted by Carnyx

First, one cannot defend or save what is clearly agonizing.

Why agonizing ? Do you speak about language ? The situation of breton language is the same than the situation of the Irish language at the beginning of XX century.
It sounds like a bad excuse to abandon Brittany. But after all there always is a good reason to join French; today it's against the migrants, yesterday it was against jews and the communists, etc.

And actually if France is not agonizing, I don't know the situation...

Last, if your only alternative to cosmopolitism and multi-culturalism-racialism is primitivism, it worries me.

primitivism :

n.

1. The condition or quality of being primitive.
2. The style characteristic of a primitive artist.
3.
1. A belief that it is best to live simply and in a natural environment.
2. A belief that the acquisitions of civilization are evil or that the earliest period of human history was the best.


Either you don't read my posts since the beginning, or you think I'm really a primitivist and it will be very hard according to my hobbies. But like I think it's a bad faith, I don't prefer really reply.

We need a powerful Europe with strong nations, not a conglomerate of microscopic tribes with a contempt for each others.

So why French never say this to Irish, Croatians, Baltic people, etc. ? I'm disappointed.

When I see anti-communautarism, preference to a "good arab" to a "white trash family" and used the same term than the leftists and others jacobins (tribalism or primitivism) ... I don't see a destiny for French except a important mixing with all colonised and migrants people like it's already the case today.

Progressively, nationalist in England are abandoning the Britishism, I saw on Stirpes Russians have a more ethnic vision of their state.
When will the French understand that a multicultural state is as bad for them as it is for us ?

[Carnyx]

Originally Posted by Youenn

Why agonizing ? Do you speak about language ?

Denatality. Ageing population. That's, agonizing. La cataschtroumpf!

The situation of breton language is the same than the situation of the Irish language at the beginning of XX century.

Tell us about the migration situation, your birthrate. I think it's not identital to that of 1900 Ireland.

It sounds like a bad excuse to abandon Brittany.

I cannot abandon what I'm ruled out of. I'm ze bad French, and your are the good Breton in the story. Don't forget you're rejecting us in the first place.

But after all there always is a good reason to join French; today it's against the migrants, yesterday it was against jews and the communists, etc.

Join who you want. Join your new Baltic allies (no offence meant blabla).

And actually if France is not agonizing, I don't know the situation...

Certainly you don't. The whore has a strong sexual appetit. We are on our knees.

Either you don't read my posts since the beginning, or you think I'm really a primitivist and it will be very hard according to my hobbies. But like I think it's a bad faith, I don't prefer really reply.

Tribalism, primitivism here is meant to say back to the primitive, that is opposing each others in vain instead of building something constructive altogether. I mean no despise.

So why French never say this to Irish, Croatians, Baltic people, etc. ? I'm disappointed.

It's not fair. Seems to me that I and others here (even Theobald) are more tolerants towards Brittany and her people than many nationalists "purs et durs, vieille garde et jeunes vieux fin de race" (to whom I don't even belong). I'm all for a revival of our cultures.

When I see anti-communautarism, preference to a "good arab" to a "white trash family" and used the same term than the leftists and others jacobins (tribalism or primitivism) ... I don't see a destiny for French except a important mixing with all colonised and migrants people like it's already the case today.

Good arab, white trash... Big deal. White Trash are just white racially, but "culturally" -or should we speak of infra culture here- what's left of identity in a fan of Tuning? Actually there's no culture, strong identity left inside a white trash familly... johnny hallyday, is that culture? Do you think this will save us? White trash are ruled out, de facto. Only those with a strong attachment to their land and identity might survive... a bit longer than them. Others are good for the garbage can of history, they belong to a world that is killing us, they are drestroying themselves and we are not responsible for that. Self determination! It's sad, however... I've pitty for them still.

Progressively, nationalist in England are abandoning the Britishism, I saw on Stirpes Russians have a more ethnic vision of their state.

Good, let's all move in Russia. Bistro! As if Frenchmen in the same case didn't exist.

When will the French understand that a multicultural state is as bad for them as it is for us ?

I, ME, JE, no Jacobin. Ok?

[Savorgnan]

Originally Posted by Carnyx

Good arab, white trash... Big deal. White Trash are just white racially, but "culturally" -or should we speak of infra culture here- what's left of identity in a fan of Tuning? Actually there's no culture, strong identity left inside a white trash familly... johnny hallyday, is that culture? Do you think this will save us? White trash are ruled out, de facto. Only those with a strong attachment to their land and identity might survive... a bit longer than them. Others are good for the garbage can of history, they belong to a world that is killing us, they are drestroying themselves and we are not responsible for that. Self determination! It's sad, however... I've pitty for them still.

White Trash basically are Northern Americans, without US citizenship though.

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by Savorgnan

White Trash basically are Northern Americans, without US citizenship though.

Oh dear! That means that Stormfront is populated with illegal immigrants in the U.S.? (I always thought that Don Black looked strange... but I didn't realize that he could be a Mexican..)

[Cirrus]

He probably talked about our French "White Trash" :


(Yes, it is in France :
Photos du country festival de Tromborn)

[Savorgnan]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

Oh dear! That means that Stormfront is populated with illegal immigrants in the U.S.? (I always thought that Don Black looked strange... but I didn't realize that he could be a Mexican..)

No Mynydd, I meant "our" French White Trash, as Cirrus guessed. I was talking of the millions of cow-boy-wannabee clowns in their 60's that corrupted France's future (now our very present) by calling their children Kevin, Johnny, Sandy, Jennifer (why not Guenièvre?)...

@ Cirrus: Thank you for the photo and the link that illustrate exactly what I meant.

[Youenn]

Originally Posted by Carnyx

Denatality. Ageing population. That's, agonizing. La cataschtroumpf!

Tell us about the migration situation, your birthrate. I think it's not identital to that of 1900 Ireland.

Is it a good reason to united all european people of France in a political struggle even if there are strong political difference on many subjects and specially the view on the state/nation... ?

I remember there was alliance in 1945 between Breton nationalists and the French nationalists (PPF of Doriot). But the situation was strongly different and this compomise include a federal state with autonomy.

I cannot abandon what I'm ruled out of. I'm ze bad French, and your are the good Breton in the story. Don't forget you're rejecting us in the first place.

You didn't understand me here.
I didn't talk about you but about others breton nationalists. I've seen some of them come close with Les identitaires at the name of "Europe". The result today ? Now Les Identitaires are coming close with the FN and they are fucked.

Join who you want. Join your new Baltic allies (no offence meant blabla).

It's you who talk about alliance, not me. And I'm not offenced.

It's not fair. Seems to me that I and others here (even Theobald) are more tolerants towards Brittany and her people than many nationalists "purs et durs, vieille garde et jeunes vieux fin de race" (to whom I don't even belong). I'm all for a revival of our cultures.

I know this for you. But I don't understand why you don't say this for the others little countries in Europe.

Good arab, white trash... Big deal. White Trash are just white racially, but "culturally" -or should we speak of infra culture here- what's left of identity in a fan of Tuning? Actually there's no culture, strong identity left inside a white trash familly... johnny hallyday, is that culture? Do you think this will save us? White trash are ruled out, de facto. Only those with a strong attachment to their land and identity might survive... a bit longer than them. Others are good for the garbage can of history, they belong to a world that is killing us, they are drestroying themselves and we are not responsible for that. Self determination! It's sad, however... I've pitty for them still.

Well, I will not debate to judge "Who is the best ?" but I've noticed a tendancy to prefer live with an islamist in our country than these "white trash" or "beauf/plouc". Even if I'm not a follower of Right or wrong, my people, I know that my people (or at least a part) can changed. It's not the case of aliens, even "good", they never will be a part of my people.

Good, let's all move in Russia. Bistro! As if Frenchmen in the same case didn't exist.

I didn't see many.

I, ME, JE, no Jacobin. Ok?

Again one time, I never really considered you as jacobin but you seem to have used the same dialectic sometimes.

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by Youenn

I didn't talk about you but about others breton nationalists. I've seen some of them come close with Les identitaires at the name of "Europe". The result today ? Now Les Identitaires are coming close with the FN and they are fucked.

ROFL!

p.s. mind your language

It's you who talk about alliance, not me. And I'm not offenced.

I meant to ask you if your meta-ethnic profile of "Keltiek - Predenek" meant "Celto-Ugric" or something. But then I realized that it must be "Celto-Prydyn".

Excuse my poor Breton.