Question about Welsh nationalism

[borisbzh]

Hello,

I am breton nationalist, i would like to know if a rightist nationalist wing exist in Wales.

[Menydh]

It doesn't as far as I know. Plaid Cymru is apparently quite leftist. Independentist, not nationalist proper.

[Chauntecleer]

Mynydd is right. The only remotely 'right wing' party present in Wales is the Welsh branch of the BNP - but they don't recognise Wales as an independent nation and so for obvious reasons can't be considered nationalists. Unionists at most. Plaid Cymru is popular in Welsh-speaking areas of Wales but they aren't really nationalist either. Although they aim to preserve Welsh culture, they are quite welcoming of potentially damaging immigrant groups...

What the situation in Brittany?

[Susi]

They have ADSAV (i think it is at: :: ADSAV, Le parti du peuple breton! but I am not sure)

[Menydh]

Susi, ADSAV is in Brittany.

[Vincent]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

Susi, ADSAV is in Brittany.

I think she was just answering the question of Chauntecleer.

What the situation in Brittany?

[Susi]

Sorry, I should have made it clearer. I was answering the question of Chauntecleer.

[borisbzh]

Thank you for answers. In fact in Brittany there is no real political breton parties, only small political groups.

I would say that ADSAV is a real nationalist group very close to Vlaams Belang 's philosophy.

Breton nationalism or identity is pretty weak here. We cnnot feel a real desire to preserve celtic propeerties of Brittany.

I think there is a place in Wales for a real nationalist party, close from BNP political line.

I was so sorry that welsh plaid was supporting immigrants from old english empire.

[Berrocscir]

Welsh Nationalism is mainly a leftist preserve. In addition to Plaid Cymru there is the small Cymru Annibynnol that boycott elections to Westminster and Cymru Goch which is more libertarian Marxist. I beleive, however, that there are International Third Position members active in Wales too.

[stribbor]

Originally Posted by Berrocscir

Welsh Nationalism is mainly a leftist preserve. In addition to Plaid Cymru there is the small Cymru Annibynnol that boycott elections to Westminster and Cymru Goch which is more libertarian Marxist. I beleive, however, that there are International Third Position members active in Wales too.

That's right, same as Sinn Fein in fact. Although they're nationalists, their ideology goes from Maoism to Catholic ur-conservativism. It doesn't matter in fact; to be a nationalist doesn't means that one has to be right wing follower. It is not a political party movement, it is political ideology which can be socialist, communist as well as conservative or liberal.

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by stribbor

It doesn't matter in fact; to be a nationalist doesn't means that one has to be right wing follower. It is not a political party movement, it is political ideology which can be socialist, communist as well as conservative or liberal.

Only under a very loose definition of Nationalism can Socialism or Liberalism be considered (or can be) nationalist political ideologies. Both doctrines revolve around the idea of state instead of nation.

[stribbor]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

Only under a very loose definition of Nationalism can Socialism or Liberalism be considered (or can be) nationalist political ideologies. Both doctrines revolve around the idea of state instead of nation.

I wouldn't agree with you. Nationalism is founded as liberal concept, as liberal answer to absolute monarchies and ancien regime. Nowadays concept is rather different, but you also have it. In democratic revolutions in Eastern Europe 1989/1990 you had re-building process of nation state and nationalist movement directed together by various political ideologies, from left to the right.

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by stribbor

I wouldn't agree with you.

I didn't think that you would.

Nationalism is founded as liberal concept, as liberal answer to absolute monarchies and ancien regime.

That is 19th century romantic nationalism. A flawed understading of nationalism.

[Marulus]

Originally Posted by stribbor

I wouldn't agree with you. Nationalism is founded as liberal concept, as liberal answer to absolute monarchies and ancien regime. Nowadays concept is rather different, but you also have it. In democratic revolutions in Eastern Europe 1989/1990 you had re-building process of nation state and nationalist movement directed together by various political ideologies, from left to the right.

The notion of organic community existed throughout the entire human history and it was often connected with the idea of the Sacred. Out of this conception arose the modern nationalism, albeit in a somehow "desacralized" form.

[stribbor]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

That is 19th century romantic nationalism. A flawed understading of nationalism.

Romantic or not, it is connected to liberalism. It emerged from liberal movement as liberals were essentially nationalistic. They found commonness in same history, religion, language etc. So, if it is romantic nationalism then we are talking about romantic liberalism as well.
Neoliberalism as is known today is cosmopolitan in one sense, it globalized financial structures.
I am very well aware about existence of ethnic nationalism and at the same time non-existence of civic one, but that doesn't means that nationalist with ethnic background and/or belief in primordial characteristics of his nation, can't be a socialdemocrat or communist.

[Marulus]

Originally Posted by stribbor

that doesn't means that nationalist with ethnic background and/or belief in primordial characteristics of his nation, can't be a socialdemocrat or communist.

I don't deny that. Social-Democrats and even Communists can sometimes be some sort of nationalists, but when the egalitarian principle inherent in these ideologies starts to permeate too much the very idea of the nationalism, it can prove detrimental to the social fabric of the nation in question. Just think of the ravages in people's minds and in the general level of culture caused in all areas of the former Yugoslavia by the extremely egalitarian "Yugoslav self-managing Socialism" (socijalističko samoupravljanje). The egalitarianism of the consumer Capitalism is no better, to be sure.

[M.R.]

Yes you can be a nationalist and a socialdemocrat or communist, but does it make sense?

As for nationalist-liberal connection, here even in the 19th century there was no such connection, I don't know about the other countries though. Anyway as nationalism I understand modern (ethnic) nationalism we have today and doesn't have much to do with 19th century romanticism. Of course every nation has different nationalism and every nation's nationalism has different history, different heroes etc.