Italy museum defies pope anger over crucified frog

[Marcus Marulus]

Italy museum defies pope anger over crucified frog

By ARIEL DAVID, Associated Press Writer Thu Aug 28, 4:39 PM ET

ROME - An art museum in northern Italy said Thursday it will continue displaying a sculpture portraying a green frog nailed to a cross that has angered Pope Benedict XVI and local officials.

The board of the foundation of the Museion in the city of Bolzano voted to keep the work by the late German artist Martin Kippenberger, the museum said in a statement.

Earlier in August the pope had written a letter to Franz Pahl, the president of the Trentino-Alto Adige region that includes Bolzano, denouncing the sculpture.

It "has offended the religious feelings of many people who consider the cross a symbol of God's love and of our redemption," Pahl quoted the pope as writing in the letter.

Pahl himself has long opposed the display of "Zuerst die Fuesse" ("First the Feet" in German), even staging a hunger strike this summer and saying he would not seek re-election unless it was removed.

In a telephone interview with The Associated Press on Thursday, Pahl said he was outraged by the museum's decision to keep the work, which he claims "pokes fun at the Catholic population and offends religion and the pope."

The 1990 wooden sculpture shows the crucified frog nailed through the feet and hands like Jesus Christ. The frog, eyes popping and tongue sticking out, wears a loincloth and holds a mug of beer and an egg in its hands.

The museum said the 3-foot (1-meter) -tall sculpture has nothing to do with religion, but is an ironic self-portrait of the artist and an expression of his angst.

"With humor and a tragicomic sense, which belongs to art since the times of Greek tragedy, Kippenberger ... faces his condition of suffering, which he expresses in many works, also, for example, in a video in which he crucifies himself," the museum said in a statement.

Born in Dortmund, Kippenberger moved from painting and sculpture to work in all mediums, often combining elements of Neo-expressionism, Pop and Dadaism. His art has been displayed across the world, including Zurich, Paris, Jerusalem, London and New York.

He died in 1997, aged 43.

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[Señor Malo]

Originally Posted by Arthur Gordon Pym

[source]

Of course, when they do cartoons of Mohamed every body is indignated and shout, cry, spit and bite, but when they represent Christ as a frog that is OK, Modern, "Open Minded" and so fashion

[Marcus Marulus]

Originally Posted by Señor Malo

Of course, when they do cartoons of Mohamed every body is indignated and shout, cry, spit and bite, but when they represent Christ as a frog that is OK, Modern, "Open Minded" and so fashion

The thing is that many people still think that attacking or ridiculing Catholic Church or Christianity in general or even Jesus Christ means "going against the stream", an act of resistance to the "oppressive society", toward its mainstream, whereas such things are of the mainstream. Protests of Popes of bishops have no effect any more, but some people simply ignore it. Old perceptions and myths on what is condoned and what "condemned" in the society still persist and do not change.

[Carnyx]

The museum said the 3-foot (1-meter) -tall sculpture has nothing to do with religion, but is an ironic self-portrait of the artist and an expression of his angst.

[Strengthandhonour]

I don't particularly find this tasteful, but I think one of the advantages that Europeans have over Muslims is freedom of expression(even though it's not as complete as it once was..) and I think this is proof of that.
I can see why people would be offended but if you look at the meaning of it, it has nothing to do with religion. The use of a symbol of "love" as written used for such a thing can be seen as distasteful, then again, art today seems to be more about shock value.

[Marcus Marulus]

Only that it does not shock anyone any more, since such excesses have become all too often and banal.

As for "liberties" that Europe purportedly enjoys, unlike Muslims, these are all worthless "liberties". You have absolutely no freedom in important matters, just "freedom" to make shitty "art" and "shock", to wear Che's T-shirt and similar unimportant matters. I don't really care about this kind of freedom.

[Marcus Marulus]

On the other hand....



This drawing can be found in the book The Explication of the Hieroglyphic Figures, by the alchemist Nicolas Flamel.

The image of the crucified serpent is attributed toNicolas Flamel, a medieval Parisian notary and alchemist who claimed to have uncovered in 1357 a mysterious and ancient bark codex containing hieroglyph symbols whose alleged interpretation for him by a hermetic scholar he called Abraham the Jew, enabled him, he further claimed, to conduct several successful alchemical transformations. The symbol of the crucified serpent was seen as representing the healing power of the Mercurial elixir.

Other varieties:





Nicolas Flamel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Strengthandhonour]

Well to you, they might seem like shitty freedoms, but I personally like being able to wear what I want,watch what I want,play what I want,make what I want,etc. Even though this are freedoms that should be guaranteed by birth they are getting rare unfortunately. But you are correct, we are lacking the things we truly need freedom for.

[Marcus Marulus]

Originally Posted by Strengthandhonour

Well to you, they might seem like shitty freedoms, but I personally like being able to wear what I want,watch what I want,play what I want,make what I want,etc. Even though this are freedoms that should be guaranteed by birth they are getting rare unfortunately. But you are correct, we are lacking the things we truly need freedom for.

I called those freedoms "shitty" because powers that be put them in the forefront of everything else and declared them the biggest freedoms, just to obscure the lack of genuine freedom. There is no freedom in the present-day Europe (and the "West" in general) and whoever thinks the contrary is clearly deluding himself:

EU's Selective Tolerance

I did not imply though that those petty freedoms should be abolished.

I am just disgusted at hypocritically elevating them, as great "conquests of civilization", on a level they do not deserve.

[Kernunnos]

Originally Posted by Carnyx

Rather disgusting, under any point of view.

i wonder how much work has cost the "artist" to complete this masterwork .. a plastic doll of dubious quality ... and a plain cross.

A real artist would not have resorted to such a cheap trick to get noticed, it strongly reminds me of that other colombian "artist" that purposedly let a dog die of hunger while chained before a food bowl.

Actually all such modern artists are just psychiatric cases, as they produce not so evil looking rubbish made to provoke disgust or shock.

What's the purpose of this art, if not make the observer feel bad?

What good is in perverting the original meaning of art, that was that of uplifting the spirit of man?

They actually partecipate in the destruction of our spirits, rather than helping mankind to focus on positive deeds or feelings.

[Milesian]

The museum said the 3-foot (1-meter) -tall sculpture has nothing to do with religion, but is an ironic self-portrait of the artist and an expression of his angst.

If this was true, then it should be the "artist" nailed to the cross.
I would be very much in favour of that, they say that artists have to suffer for their art afterall

It's nothing more than another blatant attack on religion by a coward hiding behind "art" as an excuse.

I'm in complete agreement with Arthur, there's nothing more mainstream or conformist than attacking religion these days. If anyone had a burning desire to rebel against the world, my advice would be "join the seminary"

" The act of defending any of the cardinal virtues has today all the exhilaration of a vice" - G.K. Chesterton

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by Strengthandhonour

I don't particularly find this tasteful, but I think one of the advantages that Europeans have over Muslims is freedom of expression(even though it's not as complete as it once was..) and I think this is proof of that.

You are wrong there. What there used to be was decency in the expression, honesty and other values that are today spit over with this so-called "freedom of expression".

In fact there was a time when the gratuitous insult was met by a duel and people learned to respect others. Today any retarded idiot can insult and expect to get away with it.

[Menydh]

By the way...

Originally Posted by Carnyx

.. it's not the Church but the French Embassy in Italy that should protest!

[Strengthandhonour]

Originally Posted by Menydh

You are wrong there. What there used to be was decency in the expression, honesty and other values that are today spit over with this so-called "freedom of expression".

In fact there was a time when the gratuitous insult was met by a duel and people learned to respect others. Today any retarded idiot can insult and expect to get away with it.

Well, when it comes to art , times change and so does the change of expressing one-self. For example, when the Night Watch by Rembrandt was turned in it was seen as not so great since the taste had changed and his style was no longer the preference as well as all the new elements he had tried and the same can be applied to some artists who really felt the heat from the church.
I don't want anyone to misunderstand what I am saying, as I stated previously, I don't think this is nice, as mentioned by many, I think it's kind of stupid and clearly done for shock value. I am just not offended by it, possibly because I am not religious, but I feel like if I wanted to express myself in such a way I would want to be able to do so.