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Tuesday, February 15th, 2005
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Call to allow Catholic monarchy
Source: BBC News
The leader of the Catholic Church in Scotland has called for Catholics to be allowed to rise to the monarchy. Cardinal Keith O'Brien was speaking at a summit on Scottish Executive plans to tackle religious bigotry. Cardinal O'Brien described the Act of Settlement, banning Catholics from the throne, as "hurtful" and discriminatory. The Orange Order in Scotland dismissed the call, claiming the act guaranteed everyone's religious liberty. The cardinal said: "It's a matter of regret surely that had Mrs Parker Bowles been a Catholic, Prince Charles would have lost the right to succession to the throne and similarly if they had been going to have children they would have been excluded from the right of succession and that's hurtful. Why should Prince Charles, or any heir to our throne, be able to marry not just someone of the Anglican faith, but someone who is a Muslim or Jewish, but not a Roman Catholic "Here in Scotland one-in-five of the population are equally loyal Catholics. "So why should Prince Charles, or any heir to our throne, be able to marry not just someone of the Anglican faith, but someone who is a Muslim or Jew, but not a Roman Catholic." The grand master of the Grand Orange Lodge of Scotland, Ian Wilson, said he recognised the situation may be hurtful to Catholics but that this sort of "institutionalised sectarianism" was a historical fact. Mr Wilson said: "I wouldn't have thought it was all that unusual for a Protestant country like this to have a Protestant monarchy. Lobby call "Prince Charles should marry who he is in love with and I've absolutely no problem with that - the difficulty is that Prince Charles isn't like you and I, he has a constitutional role. "The settlement is there for good historical reasons and particularly we see it as a guarantee of our religious liberties. "Having a Protestant monarchy, under the constitutional arrangements that we have, guarantees everyone's religious liberty." Cardinal O'Brien said he realised the act was a matter for Westminster, but he urged the Scottish Executive to lobby for the law to be repealed or amended
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The traditions of the Irish people are the oldest of any race in Europe north and west of the Alps, and they themselves are the longest settled on their own soil - Edmund Curtis (A History of Ireland: From Earliest Times to 1922) The Irish are one of the most ancient nations that I know of at this end of the world, and are from as mighty a race as the world ever brought forth. For it is certain that Ireland hath had the use of letters very anciently and long before England; that they had letters anciently is nothing doubtful, for the Saxons of England are said to have their letters and learning, and learned men, from the Irish. - Edmund Spenser (writer, and British Government Official in Ireland, AD 1596). The renaissance began in Ireland seven hundred years before it was known in Italy. And Armagh, the ecclesiastical capital of Ireland, was at one time the metropolis of civilisation. - Arsene Darmesteter, Professor of Old French and Literature Ireland can indeed lay claim to a great past; she can not only boast of having been the birthplace and abode of high culture in the fifth and sixth centuries . . . but also of having made strenous efforts in the seventh and up to the tenth century to spread her learning among the German and Romance peoples, thus forming the actual fountain of our present continental civilisation. - Heinrich Zimmer, Professor of Celtic and Sanskrit, Member of the Prussian Academy of Sciences 
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Tuesday, February 15th, 2005
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Re: Call to allow Catholic monarchy
Funny comments as it's obvious that the settlement does exactly the opposite of guaranteeing everyone's religious liberties. That's the entire point of the Cardinal's argument.
How can having a Catholic monarch endanger religious liberty while a Protestant only monarchy which restricts Catholics guarantees religious liberty for everyone? Am I missing something here? The settlemnt was part of various enactments which at the time restricted not only Catholics, but non-conformist Protestants as well (who incidentally make up the majority of the Orange Lodges members). Seems Mr Wilson could do with a history lesson or two.
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The traditions of the Irish people are the oldest of any race in Europe north and west of the Alps, and they themselves are the longest settled on their own soil - Edmund Curtis (A History of Ireland: From Earliest Times to 1922) The Irish are one of the most ancient nations that I know of at this end of the world, and are from as mighty a race as the world ever brought forth. For it is certain that Ireland hath had the use of letters very anciently and long before England; that they had letters anciently is nothing doubtful, for the Saxons of England are said to have their letters and learning, and learned men, from the Irish. - Edmund Spenser (writer, and British Government Official in Ireland, AD 1596). The renaissance began in Ireland seven hundred years before it was known in Italy. And Armagh, the ecclesiastical capital of Ireland, was at one time the metropolis of civilisation. - Arsene Darmesteter, Professor of Old French and Literature Ireland can indeed lay claim to a great past; she can not only boast of having been the birthplace and abode of high culture in the fifth and sixth centuries . . . but also of having made strenous efforts in the seventh and up to the tenth century to spread her learning among the German and Romance peoples, thus forming the actual fountain of our present continental civilisation. - Heinrich Zimmer, Professor of Celtic and Sanskrit, Member of the Prussian Academy of Sciences
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Tuesday, February 15th, 2005
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Re: Call to allow Catholic monarchy
I recall that years ago Charles Dumbo said that the would be the head of all religions in Britain, not just the Church of England. Or something along those lines. The comment was made in an attempt to portray the British monarchy as a multi religious and multi-cultural monarchy.
The message was directed to British Moslems, Hindus, etc. Anyway. Under the Church of England and the current trends among the British Royals and British society, most likely a Muslim, Hindu, or a Hebrew will reach the throne long before a Catholic does so.
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'Dardanidae duri, quae uos a stirpe parentum prima tulit tellus, eadem uos ubere laeto
accipiet reduces. Antiquam exquirite matrem: hic domus Aeneae cunctis dominabitur oris, et nati natorum, et qui nascentur ab illis.'  We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. --Plato--
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Tuesday, February 15th, 2005
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Re: Call to allow Catholic monarchy
More than likely. Not that it particularly bothers me.
The concept of a British monarchy only serves to re-enforce the delusion that is the United Kingdom anyway. Actually, I'm somewhat perplexed about the whole Charles and Camilla thing. Why aren't they being allowed to marry in the Church anyway? As far as I can see Charlie boy is simply carrying on in the tradition of Henry VIII. One wife dies, move onto the next. The C of E was set up to allow the Royals to divorce and re-marry to their hearts content, after all.
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The traditions of the Irish people are the oldest of any race in Europe north and west of the Alps, and they themselves are the longest settled on their own soil - Edmund Curtis (A History of Ireland: From Earliest Times to 1922) The Irish are one of the most ancient nations that I know of at this end of the world, and are from as mighty a race as the world ever brought forth. For it is certain that Ireland hath had the use of letters very anciently and long before England; that they had letters anciently is nothing doubtful, for the Saxons of England are said to have their letters and learning, and learned men, from the Irish. - Edmund Spenser (writer, and British Government Official in Ireland, AD 1596). The renaissance began in Ireland seven hundred years before it was known in Italy. And Armagh, the ecclesiastical capital of Ireland, was at one time the metropolis of civilisation. - Arsene Darmesteter, Professor of Old French and Literature Ireland can indeed lay claim to a great past; she can not only boast of having been the birthplace and abode of high culture in the fifth and sixth centuries . . . but also of having made strenous efforts in the seventh and up to the tenth century to spread her learning among the German and Romance peoples, thus forming the actual fountain of our present continental civilisation. - Heinrich Zimmer, Professor of Celtic and Sanskrit, Member of the Prussian Academy of Sciences
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Tuesday, February 15th, 2005
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Fidei Defensor
Quote:
The title was withdrawn by Pope Paul III after Henry's break with Rome but re-awarded by Act of Parliament in 1544. It still appears on all British coins as either Fid: Def: or just as F.D. In a television interview a few years ago, the Prince of Wales said that he wished he could be "Defender of Faith" rather than of the faith. The twit is all but brainless, in this at least he is a true descendent of the Hanoverians, and can't be expected to know that there are no definite or indefinite articles in Latin. He wasn't intending to be conciliatory towards Catholicism, however. The Queen has an imaginary Empire in her mind, which matters a lot to her. This has led to a love of "Multiculturalism", which she has only ever witnessed at the distance showed her by non-Europeans who have something to gain from deference to European royalty.
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Tuesday, February 15th, 2005
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Re: Fidei Defensor
Quote:
Quote:
 Quote:
Oh well, at least you can't accuse Philip of being Politically Correct 
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The traditions of the Irish people are the oldest of any race in Europe north and west of the Alps, and they themselves are the longest settled on their own soil - Edmund Curtis (A History of Ireland: From Earliest Times to 1922) The Irish are one of the most ancient nations that I know of at this end of the world, and are from as mighty a race as the world ever brought forth. For it is certain that Ireland hath had the use of letters very anciently and long before England; that they had letters anciently is nothing doubtful, for the Saxons of England are said to have their letters and learning, and learned men, from the Irish. - Edmund Spenser (writer, and British Government Official in Ireland, AD 1596). The renaissance began in Ireland seven hundred years before it was known in Italy. And Armagh, the ecclesiastical capital of Ireland, was at one time the metropolis of civilisation. - Arsene Darmesteter, Professor of Old French and Literature Ireland can indeed lay claim to a great past; she can not only boast of having been the birthplace and abode of high culture in the fifth and sixth centuries . . . but also of having made strenous efforts in the seventh and up to the tenth century to spread her learning among the German and Romance peoples, thus forming the actual fountain of our present continental civilisation. - Heinrich Zimmer, Professor of Celtic and Sanskrit, Member of the Prussian Academy of Sciences
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Tuesday, February 15th, 2005
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Re: Fidei Defensor
Quote:
 ...Quote:
 monarch.
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Tuesday, February 15th, 2005
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Re: Fidei Defensor
Quote:
If only that were true Quote:
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The traditions of the Irish people are the oldest of any race in Europe north and west of the Alps, and they themselves are the longest settled on their own soil - Edmund Curtis (A History of Ireland: From Earliest Times to 1922) The Irish are one of the most ancient nations that I know of at this end of the world, and are from as mighty a race as the world ever brought forth. For it is certain that Ireland hath had the use of letters very anciently and long before England; that they had letters anciently is nothing doubtful, for the Saxons of England are said to have their letters and learning, and learned men, from the Irish. - Edmund Spenser (writer, and British Government Official in Ireland, AD 1596). The renaissance began in Ireland seven hundred years before it was known in Italy. And Armagh, the ecclesiastical capital of Ireland, was at one time the metropolis of civilisation. - Arsene Darmesteter, Professor of Old French and Literature Ireland can indeed lay claim to a great past; she can not only boast of having been the birthplace and abode of high culture in the fifth and sixth centuries . . . but also of having made strenous efforts in the seventh and up to the tenth century to spread her learning among the German and Romance peoples, thus forming the actual fountain of our present continental civilisation. - Heinrich Zimmer, Professor of Celtic and Sanskrit, Member of the Prussian Academy of Sciences
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Tuesday, February 15th, 2005
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Re: Call to allow Catholic monarchy
It makes sense that the Monarch, and head of the Church of England, should marry someone of that religion. Would the chief Rabbi marry a Protestant? No, his religion prevents it, and so too does the constitution prevent anyone other than a Protestant from being head of state. If instead the Archbishop of Canterbury was head of the Church of England (which most people might assume to be true), then the Act of Settlement might not make much sense, but then we would have a Church not under the control of the head of state. The best solution would be to have a Republic, and to formally disestablish the Church from the state. That's the way things are heading in any case. We could then elect a president who could be anyone worthy enough (preferably of British Isles descent).
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