scientists, not as smart as they think

[Crvena zvezda]

Beauty queen brighter than nuclear physicistA Slovenian TV programme that tried to prove top models were brainless bimbos was scrapped after a beauty queen turned out to have a higher IQ than a nuclear physicist.

Iris Mulej, a former Miss Universe contestant, was found to have an IQ of 156 by scientists working for the programme makers.
She had to take a series of logic tests looking at spatial awareness, mathematical equations and problem solving ability.
The test result forced Slovenia TV, the state broadcaster, to cancel its programme involving the model who left school at 16 to pursue a modelling career.
A spokesman for Bronz Model Management that represents Iris, 22, said: "They couldn't really do a programme making fun of dumb models when she turned out to be smarter than anyone else on the programme.
"They are now wondering if they can do a different programme about the world's smartest model, and are trying to persuade Guiness to accept it as a record category."
Iris, who previously admitted one of her ambitions was to have sex with one guy and three other girls, was Slovenia's Miss Universe contestant in 2002.

[Kernunnos]

Originally Posted by Crvena zvezda

Beauty queen brighter than nuclear physicistA Slovenian TV programme that tried to prove top models were brainless bimbos was scrapped after a beauty queen turned out to have a higher IQ than a nuclear physicist.

Iris Mulej, a former Miss Universe contestant, was found to have an IQ of 156 by scientists working for the programme makers.
She had to take a series of logic tests looking at spatial awareness, mathematical equations and problem solving ability.
The test result forced Slovenia TV, the state broadcaster, to cancel its programme involving the model who left school at 16 to pursue a modelling career.
A spokesman for Bronz Model Management that represents Iris, 22, said: I wonder wether such tests "They couldn't really do a programme making fun of dumb models when she turned out to be smarter than anyone else on the programme.
"They are now wondering if they can do a different programme about the world's smartest model, and are trying to persuade Guiness to accept it as a record category."
Iris, who previously admitted one of her ambitions was to have sex with one guy and three other girls, was Slovenia's Miss Universe contestant in 2002.

Hmm, she leaves school at 16 than she can solve math equations better than a nuclear physicist, or she outsmarts him with an IQ in the genius category (average IQ for the white race is 105, brilliant graduates are around 125). What accuracy do we have here?

[Franze]

Good woman, very funny Crvena zvezda

[Susi]

I think it depends on the test... it doesn't make her any better of a person

[Agrippa]

Difference of:
Intellectual potential and use of it, as well as intelligence and personality - finally IQ is a relatively useful but instrument while being far from absolutely important or reliable.

There are different forms of intelligence and intelligent behaviour, not all of them being measured by an IQ-test, and those aspects who are measured might be not always best grasphed through it, even though the test remains as being a very useful mean. Furthermore there are a lot of very intelligent people which will never produce anything of real significance in the world. That was and always will be the case. Its rather the other way around: You have to have at least a certain intelligence level, but being intelligent alone is no guarantee for being effectively more successful or important in this world.

But since she looks very progressive, schizothymic and healthy, I dont really wonder that much, all those people who said models must be "dumber" are idiots themselves, since they are on average for sure, actually they MUST BE more intelligent than the average. The only surprise is the exact result in her case.

She's just a good example of a) bad nurture or b) bad aspects of her personality, personality traits which reduced her overall great potential in every regard.

Anyway, one or two provocative or even simply dumb arguments or behaviour in given situations dont make anyone a negative individual, thats just human and even the better ones are not free from this. Instincts, drives, environmental influences and simple errors can affect them too obviously.

The correct headline should be: Models and scientists, two selected categories of distinguished people rather than what is written, since the scientist is still intelligent, the model just has potential too if going after the test at least (since intelligence in itself can be measured just indirectly so far). That both categories of people are more progressive and leptomorphic is needless to say after various article of mine I hope...

[Arthur Gordon Pym]

I deeply respect serious scientists, but these days all kind of rubbish goes under the label of science. Being a scientist is no guarantee for being intelligent (let alone wise). So I am not at all surprised that a certain "model" could solve better a test than a certain "scientist".

And anyway, those tests are mostly unreliable, the generalised "intrelligence" being one of the most un-intelligent myths of the modern Western society.

On the other hand, these kinds of contests of "beauty" are mostly disgusting, it is a form of prostitution, averts young women from having families and children, it imposes unacceptable standards of "beauty" (being an anorexic skeleton is "beautiful"?) Such things would be banned in a truely nationalist state. But that is a topic for some other thread.

[Carnyx]

Iris, who previously admitted one of her ambitions was to have sex with one guy and three other girls

Maybe she's smart, what is sure is that she's dirty.

[Agrippa]

Originally Posted by prometheus

On the other hand, these kinds of contests of "beauty" are mostly disgusting, it is a form of prostitution, averts young women from having families and children, it imposes unacceptable standards of "beauty" (being an anorexic skeleton is "beautiful"?)

I see problems with such trends too, although I still can't agree with this. A cult of beauty and aesthetic is part of the occidental culture and its a positive selective factor for racial development. The problem begins when the image, the hint becomes more important than the real content. The hint means: Certain physical traits are positive and should be admired, spread in the population. The problem begins if all look and admire those traits, but they dont spread in the population because the most positive (more risk taking, more intelligent, more beautiful, more effective, more social upwardly mobile etc.) have less children than those which dont come even close but live outside of this value system and simply reproduce without any further considerations at the expense of those who are the backbone of the group - the indigenous and racially progressive individuals of medium to higher level of Europe.

Considering a certain extreme in the model business and ideals in general I should add this, something I wrote in other threads originally:

Originally Posted by Agrippa

The body ideal has not to be reduced to one very limited definition, there are more options of good physique, just certain negative extremes are clearly out of the range.
However, considering beauty ideals, my theory is that the ideal is not always there to really fulfil it, but to strive for it! So in a situation people starve and are plagued by diseases, a more voluptuous ideal was more common, than in times of exuberance when obesity and associated diseases became more important.
So its partly a regulator who says where the people should go, mainly because they are not even close.

Furthermore the physical ideals say something about a period, the very idealistic and spiritual time of the Gothic had Leptosomic and even Asthenic ideals, typical holy men and heros, the Baroque, a Central European time of decadence in the upper class and constant catastrophies, more hedonistic and sensuous had rather corpulent ideals.
The ideal of efficiency is the sporty leptosomic and athletic body on the other hand, because he is associated with general power and efficiency. A canny cook can be depicted different than a manager for a dynamic company on the stock market f.e.
That are direct association related to constitutional types. As I said a certain variation is healthy, but ideals are not even there to reach them, but to stamp the people and show them what kind of body and mind is good, for what they should strive for. Because without such ideals, people lose their values and norms, partly get indifferent about certain things. Just think about people which dont care about getting fat nowadays, in a time cheap, tasty but unhealthy and fat-making food is available everywhere. Its no solution to ask for different ideals, the only solution is to face the problem. But that doesnt have to mean women need to look like skinny child like models, but they shouldnt be indifferent about getting adipose. America is a good example for that pattern. The ideal is getting skinnier and skinnier, and many women beyond 30 have to train until they have just sinewy muscles, whats rather un-feminine, but at the same time more and more people get really fat.
The ideal shows the direction, for some its just not motivation enough, for many even the opposite because they know they can never reach it, but still its better than obese ideals.

As for the Palaeolithic figures (Venus von Villendorf f.e.), I had longer discussions about that, even with professors, its an interesting topic but its finally a religious and fecundity symbol. I could elaborate this but it would go to far.

With ideals its often like that:

Reality (= far from the ideal)
Ideal (= far from reality)
Exaggerated ideal (= not reachable or even not the optimum if reached)
Good norm (= not ideal but approaching it)
Bad norm (= not ideal but in tolerable borders)
Out of the norm (= it should be tried to bring it into the borders)

For many parts of the USA, concerning female body type:
Reality: Too fat on average
Ideal: Sinewy Leptosomic
Exaggerated ideal (= Skinny Asthenic, fatless-sinewy female body)
Good norm ( = from Leptosomic to trained-in-shape Pyknic)
Bad norm ( = from Asthenic to normal Pyknic)
Out of the norm ( = anorexic, sick Asthenics, Apoplectics of all kinds (various disproportional groups), adipose individuals etc.)

In Ethiopia during a famine things would look different. The ideal and good norm should stay basically the same, but the exaggerated ideal would look different.

If the ideal is too low, people feel to easily satisfied and dont strive for more, for "reaching the stars". Ideals are actually there to motivate people.
So I say even hypocrisy is sometimes better than having no ideal in certain important fields of society. Because giving (even the hypocritical) ideal up means to open the border for chaos and indifference.

The main problem is that the Western people of today live socially, psychically and oftentimes, if its about nutrition and lack of exercises, unhealthy way of life. So the problem can't be reduced to magazines and the disorders girls can develop if looking at them, its a fundamental problem of todays Western culture and societies with its lack of strong and healthy communities, good ideals and better options for a healthy life. Negative genetic traits and contraselection is an issue as well. Some people simply can't reach even the lowest standards if they lack the necessary genetic qualities, no matter what they do. A lot of eating disorders come not from magazines nor a low physical standard but general psychic problems.

More specialised on the problem of girls and young women have with certain body ideals:

Actually similar trends had been observed in other high cultures upper classes of the past too, to name just two: China and Persia. I read the comment of a Chinese commentator of his time to lament about certain aristocratic women going to far with their diets, analogously:
"Its good if the young women are slim and healthy, but its wrong if they become pale (in an unhealthy way), skinny, the bones visible and sick because they go to far with their diets and control of the own body."

That sums it up quite good, its right to strive for a healthy ideal, but its wrong to go to far. It has nothing to do with magazines, but affluent societies of higher culture in which appearance is of great importance and the women compete with each other since beauty can mean social acceptance and status (= reproductive success and survival in a biological context and therefore it makes always sense to strive for it) at least to them subjectively.

But most real anorexic girls (or men for that matter) have different problems which are the real and main cause for their disorder. Its quite typical that actually more attractive and slim (leptomorphic) girls tend to be more often anorexic than those who "would need it". It has to do with psychological types as well, since the typical Pyknic women are often loudmouth-type people or caring prosocial friends which have "a different strategy". Of course they dont like to be fat, especially if they are no longer just rounded and voluptuous, but really obese. However, they often have a certain assertiveness or social behaviour most anorexic women dont have in the same form at least.
Those are more often leptomorphic by basic body type and introverted schizothymes psychologically, oftentimes with troubles to accept their feminity and maturity. Not seldomly victims of sexual abuse tend to hate their body and try to destroy it with all kinds of disorders subconsciously.
For those which had no such experiences, I consider control being a main factor. In a quite typical schizothymic way they try to control things and sometimes begin to specialise on a personal ideal of body control. This has often little to do with just "following a magazine" or body ideal, but is the result of a lack of a good relationship to the own self and body as well as the lack of real social integration and personal goals and valuable ideals of the person in question. So we deal with a complex psycho-social problem which has many causes and factors to be considered.

[Vincent]

I don't know... maybe it is nonsense. They wanted it to be yet another "reason" why chasing beauty ideals and money, excluding having a family etc. is a positive trend young girls should do. Why study something real useful and raise children, if you can have a higher IQ (and therefor be better?) then some person who studied, who is working hard, and contribueting something positive to the society, and has a family (I'm not talking just about scientists).

[Susi]

She could just be an anomoly...

[Agrippa]

Originally Posted by Susi

She could just be an anomoly...

She must be, because neither are all models that superficial (she is primarily "a Miss" anyway, which makes a difference) nor can they be all THAT high scoring in IQ tests. I mean above average means that they are more intelligent than the average, but I would never claim all models being genius *lol*
And no matter what one thinks about IQ tests, to reach such a result, she must be very intelligent no matter what.

@ProduSlav: Its a general trend, especially for lower class girls, to strive for easy goals and having no honour any more, but thats more the result of the popculture in general and Americanisation, a commercialised culture and the highly sexualised image of women in general. The model business is at best just part of it and represents rather "the elite" even if its about that (if excluding the "heroin chic" trends!), because the real catastrophy happens in the mass with millions of girls behaving like cheap bitches all the day and trying to get attention in the cheapest ways thinkable. Most model like women of the higher quality dont need to behave "that cheap", especially not in daily life.

[Arthur Gordon Pym]

Originally Posted by Agrippa

Its a general trend, especially for lower class girls, to strive for easy goals and having no honour any more, but thats more the result of the popculture in general and Americanisation, a commercialised culture and the highly sexualised image of women in general. The model business is at best just part of it and represents rather "the elite" even if its about that (if excluding the "heroin chic" trends!), because the real catastrophy happens in the mass with millions of girls behaving like cheap bitches all the day and trying to get attention in the cheapest ways thinkable. Most model like women of the higher quality dont need to behave "that cheap", especially not in daily life.

And that's precisely why I said these contests and similar idiocies should be banned.

[Crvena zvezda]

Iris, who previously admitted one of her ambitions was to have sex with one guy and three other girls, was Slovenia's Miss Universe contestant in 2002.

Originally Posted by Carnyx

Maybe she's smart, what is sure is that she's dirty.

I belive there's a song Rick James made that would apply for her, Super Freak. All of it applies to her, she seems to be very kinky , obviosuly you wouldn't won't your mother to no about her, she'd never let your spirits down, she seems to like all the boys in the band and so on.

Lyrics:
She's a very kinky girl
The kind you don't take home to mother
She will never let your spirits down
Once you get her off the street, ow girl

She likes the boys in the band
She says that I'm her all-time favorite
When I make my move to her room it's the right time
She's never hard to please

{Refrain}
That girl is pretty wild now
The girl's a super freak
The kind of girl you read about
In new-wave magazine
That girl is pretty kinky
The girl's a super freak
I really love to taste her
Every time we meet
She's all right, she's all right
That girl's all right with me, yeah
She's a super freak, super freak
She's super-freaky, yow

Super freak, super freak

She's a very special girl
The kind of girl you want to know
From her head down to her toenails
Down to her feet, yeah
And she'll wait for me at backstage with her girlfriends
In a limousine
Going back in Chinatown

Three's not a crowd to her, she says
"Room 714, I'll be waiting"
When I get there she's got incense, wine and candles
It's such a freaky scene

(Refrain)

(Bridge)

Temptations sing!
Ohhhhh
Super freak, super freak
That girl's a super freak
Ohhhhh

She's a very kinky girl
The kind you don't take home to mother
She will never let your spirits down
Once you get her off the street, ow girl

Blow, Danny!

[Kernunnos]

Originally Posted by prometheus

I deeply respect serious scientists, but these days all kind of rubbish goes under the label of science. Being a scientist is no guarantee for being intelligent (let alone wise). So I am not at all surprised that a certain "model" could solve better a test than a certain "scientist".

And anyway, those tests are mostly unreliable, the generalised "intrelligence" being one of the most un-intelligent myths of the modern Western society.

On the other hand, these kinds of contests of "beauty" are mostly disgusting, it is a form of prostitution, averts young women from having families and children, it imposes unacceptable standards of "beauty" (being an anorexic skeleton is "beautiful"?) Such things would be banned in a truely nationalist state. But that is a topic for some other thread.

Concurred Also I doubt that she was given a serious test for several reasons. As of intelligence, yes, it is nothing without strong self-determination and high goals. It is sadly true that many mediocre people who are strong willed will attain a lot in term of personal sucess, often at the expense of real progress and society\'s interests.