Numismatics

[Lagun]

The Lion Daler - Silver Dutch Ducatoon for trade

One of the most popular silver "thalers" in the XVII century was the DUTCH Lion Daler (leeuwendaaler), first minted in 1575.
Thousands of these coins were issued for trade, using a 750 Silver metal, and many different types were struck in diferent Dutch cities.

The lion dollar was authorized to contain 427.16 grains of .750 fine silver and passed locally for between 36 to 42 stuivers. It was lighter than the large denomination coins then in circulation, namely the ducatoon (491 grains of .920 fine silver and passing at 3 guilders or 60 stuivers) and the rijksdaalder (448 grains of .885 fine silver passing at 2 1/2 guilders or 50 stuivers). Clearly it was more advantageous for a Dutch merchant to pay a foreign debt in lion dalers rather than in more costly rijksdaalders. Thus, the lion dollar became the coin of choice for foreign trade.

As they were stuck over very fine planchets, they are ususaly very weekly struck.


Lion Daler (Netherlands - 1601 - 750 Silver - 40mm - about 27g)

[Sifjar]

Originally Posted by Lagun

Numismatics are one of my passions.

I have special fever for Thalers and large silver coins from the Middle Ages to WWI.
So I will insert some of my favorite coins, so that any other pasionate collector in the forum does it aswell.

I will start with the King of Spanish Numismatics:

CINCUENTIN (175g -76mm - 903 Silver) This one represents an almost 100% unified Spain (Just French Bask Country and Andorra missing)

It's really nice and contains alot of historically information just looking at it, Do you collect old coins too? How big is your collections ?

[Lagun]

I collect silver coins of what in Germanic countries are called Thalers, in England Crowns, in Italy Taleros or Scudos, in USA Dollars and in Spain PESOS or DUROS. So to sum up, large silver coins of aprox 1 oz. My speciality is Spanish coins from 1700 to 1833, but I also collect other Spanish coins and Austrian and German Thalers.

I have been over 30 years collecting coins, so I gather I have a nice collection. Some of the coins that I have exposed belong to my collection.

[Lagun]

Originally Posted by Sifjar

It's really nice and contains alot of historically information just looking at it, Do you collect old coins too? How big is your collections ?

If you have any old coin at home, I can probably tell you something about it. So just scann it and lets try!!!

[Lagun]

As a homage to Sifjar:

4 Riksdaler Riksmynt (1 Riksdaler Species - Sweden - 1857); weight 34 grams, 39.1 mm diameter, 0.75 silver.

[Sifjar]

Originally Posted by Lagun

As a homage to Sifjar:

4 Riksdaler Riksmynt (1 Riksdaler Species - Sweden - 1857); weight 34 grams, 39.1 mm diameter, 0.75 silver.

Nice yes its the coins of our Instrument of the Government (RF). Nice that you want to know our history

[Lagun]

THE EARTHQUAKE OF GUATEMALA: TRACING HISTORY THROUGH NUMISMATICS

The mint of Guatemala was one of the important silver mints of Spanish American territories. Founded in 1525 Santiago de los Caballeros, known later as Antigua, was the former capital of Guatemala until it was devastated by a terrible earthquake by 1773 that turned the city into a ruin.

A new city, Nueva Guatemala was founded in a less exposed area and coin struck begun again.

All this is represented in Numismatics, by the symbols G (Guatemala) and NG (Nueva Guatemala / New Guatemala), as you will be able to appreciate in the coins that I enclosed, one prior to the earthquake and the other one struck after the desaster.


8 Reales from 1755 (Observe "G" mint mark surrounding the date)




8 Reales from 1820 (Observe mintmark "NG" at 8 o´clock)

[Lagun]

2 Excelentes (Spain - Seville - Catholic Kings - 7g -Gold - 27mm)

This is a coin that could had been in Cristopher Colombus pockets.

[Lagun]

As a homage to Anna:

8 Reales (Spain- Valencia - 27,07g - 903 Silver - 39mm)

You can Observe the VALENCIA mint mark (V) just close to the coat of arms, under the R for Reales. As well under the 8, you can find the initials of the Mint Master ("ensayador") SG.

This coin was struck during the Napoleonic wars in what we call The Independence War (1808-14), or in Valencia, "The war of the French".

[Lagun]

Another Italian Beauty:

ONZA DI 30 TARI (Italy - Sicily - 1791-Ferdinand II - 900 Silver - About 30g)

[Lagun]

THE FIRST COIN

The first coin was struck at Lydia in Asia Minor during the VII Century BC, in Electrum (Electrón in Spanish), a natural ocurring alloy of gold and silver that could be found in the rivers and montains of the area.


Half Stater (Lydia - Ellectrum - S VII BC - 7,13mm)


It was also the Kingdom of Lydia the first one to struck coins of sole gold and silver, what started giving a much more solid base to coins for trade, as electrum always carried the problem of value (% of silver and gold varied).

Stater (Lydia - Kroisos - Silver - 561/546 BC - 10,53g - Sardes Mint)

[Anna]

Lagun, I have found this Louis XIV medal. Currently, it's in The American Numismatic Society (New York). It has engraving Nec pluribus impar. Can you explain its meaning? I'm very interesting in its iconographic subject. Thanx.

P.S. Footnotes's date is 1663 but the medal says 1674. ¿?

[Lagun]

Dear Anna,
I do not know much about medals, it´s that part of numismatics that I simply neglect in favour of coins, and furthermore although I am a passionate of Art, I have abandoned serious study about it for more than 14 years, but I will try:

Louis XIV (Louis le Grand), assumed as his emblem and that of France, the sun, with the motto Nec pluribus impar. Now, the sun, in the language of alchemists, stands for gold, and, in the metaphorical language of the Church, for Christianity.

It is especially connected with France, inasmuch as her King is held at Rome, to be Christianissimus, but obviously Louis meant it of sovereignty.

Furthermore, at Mazarin´s death (1661), once he feels free of tutelage, he comes out with: L'État, c'est Moi.

[Lagun]

Proclamation Medal of Fernando VII (8 Reales Size at Lima Perú 1808 - While mainlanda Spain was occuupaid by the French).

This kind of medals, using coin 8 reales format (903 Silver, 39mm, 27,07g) were very commun in Spanish colonial mints. The Alféreces reales used to proclaim the new king, and it was specially significative in this cases were the mainland was occupaid, and occupation king imposed by French was not recognized in the non occupaid territories.

This situation, turned a few years after into the independence of most of Spanish America.

[Anna]

Lagun

Thank you anyway. I thought that medals were closely related to coins, sorry. I have found some information about the medal: the emblem's origin matches with Pireneics Peace (1659). In this event Spain transfers to France extensive territory, and the borders between both countries were established as well. It also lead to the marriage of Louis XIV and Maria Teresa de Austria (Philip IV's daughter).
The iconographic meaning comes from the slogan Non plus ultra (no o nada más allá - nothing beyond), meaning that Louis XIV appears above the earth because he's more than sun and the aforementioned slogan.

[Lagun]

Originally Posted by Anna

Thank you anyway. I thought that medals were closely related to coins, sorry. I have found some information about the medal: the emblem's origin matches with Pireneics Peace (1659). In this event Spain transfers to France extensive territory, and the borders between both countries were established as well. It also lead to the marriage of Louis XIV and Maria Teresa de Austria (Philip IV's daughter).
The iconographic meaning comes from the slogan Non plus ultra (no o nada más allá - nothing beyond), meaning that Louis XIV appears above the earth because he's more than sun and the aforementioned slogan.

In fact they are, they are part of Numismatics, but as I have no interest in them I have no books about them and therefore my capacity for answering questions related to them is very limited.

Regarding the meaning you prupose, I believe it is very acceptable but not necessarily the only one.

For instance did you you that the motto Nec pluribus impar, was firstly thought for Phillip II of Spain? History has lots of hidden trues!!

I like more my theory that will connect you Bodin, Westphalia consequences of political conception and Absolutism in general.

[Lagun]

Proclamation Medal of Ferdinand VII (Puno/Perú - 1808 - 27,07g -903 Silver - 39mm)

[Lagun]

8 Reales (1822 - Guanajuato - 903 Silver - 27,07g - 39mm)

This coins of Guanajuato (México) of 1822 have the singularity of being struck by insurgent forces to pay their soldiers. So as you can see, during the first years of Mexican independence still the arms of Spain and the portrait of it´s king were used as a symbol of value.

[Lagun]

THE KLIPPE THALERS

Square shaped thalers issued in Germanic countries along the XVI-XVIII centuries.
The picture depics a non dated Klippe Thaler from Salzburg 1587-1612.

[Lagun]

30 Taris coins of the Order of the Knights of St. John in Malta

Thaler size silver coins, 40-43mm and 28.5 to 29.5g, issued by Emmanuel Pinto, grand master of the order.






Dom Frei Manuel Pinto da Fonseca (1681 - 23 January 1773) was a Knight of the Langue of Portugal. He was the 68th Grand Master of the Order of the Holy Religion of the Knights of St John of Jerusalem, of Palestine, of Rhodes, and called Malta, from 1741 to 1773. He was a Portuguese Nobleman, the son of Miguel Álvaro Pinto da Fonseca, Alcaide-Mór de Ranhados, and wife Ana Pinto Teixeira.

He was elected on 18 January 1741. On 25 May 1743 he gave his name to the then town of Qormi giving it the status of a city (Città Pi