'Yugonostalgia Takes Hold in Slovenia'

[Galaico]

Originally Posted by Zrinski

Oh and I forgot...these are the old maps. The new ethnic map of Croatia and Bosnia are these:

Bosnia and Herzegovina ethnic map by muncipalities:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ImageemoBIH2006.PNG

Croatia - ethnic map by muncipalities:
http://forum.stirpes.net/attachment....1&d=1131330431

If we would look at the ethnic map by counties (zupanije) they would be all red(Croatian) with Croats composing in each and every one at least 72% (Istria - where there is 7% of Italians).

Croatian counties:
http://zone.mingorp.hr/images/Hrvatska8.gif

I'm sure that the ethnic compostion of Croatia has changed a lot since the start of the war. This is not an anti-Croat post, I'm just figuring how a peaceful disgregation of Yugoslavia could have taken place.

[Zrinski]

Originally Posted by Franjo Malgaj

This is Balkan geographicaly.

Thats one of the defintions. Most commonly Balkan geo-political("geographic") region is considered this:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...an_topo_en.jpg

However the very fact people cannot agree on it just proves what I am saying. If you look at the old maps and the border between Habsburg Monarchy and Ottoman Empire you will see what the real Balkan is. The Ottoman posession in Europe were and are still 'Balkans'...including Ottoman vassals. Croatia was neither.

I consider Croatia to be culturally part of Central Europe, not Balkans, though.

Croatia is neither culturally nor geographically part of the Balkans.

Originally Posted by Galaico

I'm sure that the ethnic compostion of Croatia has changed a lot since the start of the war. This is not an anti-Croat post, I'm just figuring how a peaceful disgregation of Yugoslavia could have taken place.

Those are fairy tales. What happened happened...we cannot change the past.

[Galaico]

Bosnia and Herzegovina ethnic map by muncipalities:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ImageemoBIH2006.PNG

Interesting map, why aren't the municipalities of Drvar, Glamoč, and Bosansko Grahovo under the Republika Srpska, if they are of Serbian majority according to your map?

[Zrinski]

Originally Posted by Galaico

Interesting map, why aren't the municipalities of Drvar, Glamoč, and Bosansko Grahovo under the Republika Srpska, if they are of Serbian majority according to your map?

Because they were under Croatian (Herzeg-Bosnia) control when the 'Dayton Agreement' was signed and thus according to agreement went to 'Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina' entity. They are Serbian by majority today because the Serbs returned there after the war.

[Galaico]

Originally Posted by Zrinski

Because they were under Croatian (Herzeg-Bosnia) control when the 'Dayton Agreement' was signed and thus according to agreement went to 'Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina' entity.

Interesting, is it planned to transfer those municipalities to SP or are they happy under the Federation of BiH?

Originally Posted by Zrinski

They are Serbian by majority today because the Serbs returned there after the war.

Well, I think that's good, isn't it? I mean people returning to their homes.

[Vincent]

Originally Posted by Galaico

Interesting, is it planned to transfer those municipalities to SP or are they happy under the Federation of BiH?

There won't be any transfer. RS and the Federation will stay the way they are, or... both will be erased from the map of Bosnia and Herc. (that's at least what the US government and EU wants).

Originally Posted by Galaico

Well, I think that's good, isn't it? I mean people returning to their homes.

Yes. But many of them are not returning to live there. They take their homes back to sell it to someone else.

[Zrinski]

Originally Posted by Galaico

Interesting, is it planned to transfer those municipalities to SP or are they happy under the Federation of BiH?

No. The plan is to abolish the entities in Bosnia and Herzegovina and to create certain county-regions which would be centralized. Two counties for each(and with their absolute majorities) of the constitutional nations(Croats, Bosniaks and Serbs).

Well, I think that's good, isn't it? I mean people returning to their homes.

The people returned there mostly because those parts were under Serbian control and fell under Croatian control maybe month or two before the Dayton agreement was signed so their return wasn't really in question or that hard. It is the exception to the rule. Most Serbs who fled Croatia and other parts of Bosnia and Herzegovina moved to Serbian entity where they moved to houses of Crots and Bosniaks. In the same manner most Croats from Bosnia(now teritory of Serbian entitiy) moved into once Serbian houses in Croatia. So in a sense what we had is the 'exchange of populations'. In the end maybe that was for the best as we now have much solid ethnic boundries...who knows...

And of course there is also the case 'lasuucranis' is talking about...those who return often return only to get their papers in order and to find a buyer. There were even cases where Serbs and Croats just agree to switch their properties so a Croat living in Bosnia(now under Serbian control) or Serbia switches with a Serb who lives(d) in Croatia or Bosnia under Croatian control.

[Marcus Marulus]

Originally Posted by Panonski

'Yugonostalgy' is popular between teenagers (who were 2 or 3 years old when Yugoslavia collapsed), it's simmilar phenomenom like Che Guevarra T-Shirt - young people without identity need symbols with which they can identify, so they wear Tito T-Shirts or other Yugoslav symbols. There are also 'Slovenian' POP-music groups which sing in Serbian and talk how great Tito was and also support killing of innocent Slovenians after WWII by communists ("they were traitors").

According to your descritpion they seem somehow similar to Neo-Nutzies and skinheads.

[Cirrus]

Originally Posted by Panonski

Yugoslavia was a big mistake for Slovenia, not only that we lost many Slovenian lands because of Yugoslavia and because it was trying to destroy Slovenian national identity in every way

Why did Slovenia lost many lands ? I thought Slovenia was just a part of Austria before being Yugoslavian.

[Monolith]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

Why did Slovenia lost many lands ? I thought Slovenia was just a part of Austria before being Yugoslavian.

Perhaps he was referring to areas that had Slovenian majority, or significant number of Slovenes, but were given to Austria and Italy instead.

[Cirrus]

Originally Posted by Bardyllis

Perhaps he was referring to areas that had Slovenian majority, or significant number of Slovenes, but were given to Austria and Italy instead.

OK, I see. I didn't know such areas existed. But in Carinthia and in Friuli Venezia Giulia, aren't Slovenians only a small minority ?

[Monolith]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

OK, I see. I didn't know such areas existed. But in Carinthia and in Friuli Venezia Giulia, aren't Slovenians only a small minority ?

They are today, but the situation was much different in the past, namely in the Trieste and surrounding area.

[Superstar]

Originally Posted by Panonski

'Yugonostalgy' is popular between teenagers (who were 2 or 3 years old when Yugoslavia collapsed)

You're 18 years of age.

And why do I find this hard to believe? I would have thought that the older generation, the ones who lived during those times, would be more fond of Jugoslavia, as opposed to all the pimple faced teenagers that have only read about it on the Internet?

[svin]

pimple faced teenagers that have only read about it on the Internet?

Precisely because they didn't live there, they made up their mind it was cool. Some local teenagers admire USSR because of their young age too.

[Kernunnos]

Originally Posted by Galaico

I'm sure many Slovenians suffered under Tito's regime, but you must admit that Yugoslavia was the land of freedom compared to the USSR and to the Warsaw Pact states.

I understand the desire for independence of the Slovenian people as they are the most differenciated nation of all those which made up Yugoslavia, if I'm not wrong Slovenian language began separating from ancient South Slavonian in the 9th century, while for example Serb and Croatian are still very close nowadays, considered the same language by most people (Serbo-Croatian).

I support the idea of the disgregation of former Yugoslavia, as it was an artifitial nation, but it has been done in a wrong way in my opinion, it has weakened all the European nations in the region in favour of Muslim Bosniaks and Albanians.

Slovenia seems to be alright, Croatia needed to be independent, despite their linguistic closeness to Serbia they hate each other, but Serbian land in Croatia and vice-versa should've been exchanged, Bosnia and Herzegovina should have been divided between Croatia and Serbia, Montenegro should still be united with Serbia (Croatians in Montenegro to Croatia, and Albanians to Albania), Kosovo should have been depolluted of Albanians, and FYROM should have been divided between Bulgaria and Serbia (Albanians to Albania).

The apparition of small states with large Albanian minorities such as FYROM or Montenegro will only provoke future Kosovos.

Well, it was just the best barrack of the great communist lager, as it was Hungary.

In Hungary an old woman got berserk seeing me with an old Stalin's work i had bought as an historical relic for my library: she was angry and distressed at teh same time.

As in hungary, the early communist period meant mass murder, torture and annihilation of entire classdes of people.

Than some less brutal regime was established, in Yugo it happened because Tito had detached from Soviet Union, possibly to save his skin from that Stalin he had served so well by denouncing comrades during the purges of 1938, when he was an exile in Moscow.


The fairy tale of a human faced communism in Hungary, Romania and Yugo was a legend: as for Tito, it depended largely from his dalliance with the West after his break from Moscow.

As for Ceaucescu or the hungarian regime, police brutality and dissent stifling was the rule, simply Hungary had a barely decent economic system, while ceaucescy played maveruck with teh West for his convenience but he was just another staunch commie.