Historic Borders of 'SE Europe'

[Slavni]

Originally Posted by Panonski

Many partisans who fought in Slovenia were Serbs.

There is a long list of Serbs who had important roles in Slovenian partisan army published somewhere on internet.

And there was a lot of Slovenians who were in Royal Army of General Mihailovic.Slovenians and Serbs are clear sample who shows that WW2 on Balkan was not war of Catholics and Orthodox,but Serbs and ex-Serbs who converted religion(to islam and to Catholicism).Slovenians are dear guests in Serbia.

[Zrinski]

Originally Posted by Slavni

...more of 90% of all partisans were Serbs,that's my shame,not yours.

Yes...thats why the leader was a Croat and his second in command a Slovene.

And that pisture is false,there was 7 big partisan battles in WW2,almost all in present Bosnia and Hercegovina,all of that battles werw in Serbian lands.Is Zagreb bombed in WW2? Belgrede was,twice.Why?Want to continue...?

Of coure it's "false". Every historical fact which goes against your little personal world is "false", right? However thankfully we are living in a real world so you will have to cope with that. Serbian lands? I just showed you how many brigades were in Serbia. Do you want me to show you how much territory was liberated in Serbia? Trust me you will not like that map too.

As for Belgrade it was bombed twice becaue:
1. It was the capital of Yugoslavian kingdom so it was bombed first time by the Germans
2. By the end of the war it was in control by Germans and their Nedic collaborators so it was again bombed, this time by allies...tough luck.

For your information the battle for Zagreb was led outside on the neighbouring area where the almost exclusively Croatian brigade beat the Germans. This same brigade gave more generals and commanders to later Yugoslav army then any other brigade...this was the brigade where Tito started as well.

Originally Posted by Panonski

Many partisans who fought in Slovenia were Serbs.

Many yes, however they were clearly in minority. Have there been a Chetnik command somewhere in Slovenia they would surely choose chauvinist and hegemonistic Chetniks over Partisans any day. As I said most people in Serbia supported the Chetniks, there were no Partisans in Serbia until 1944. when it became clear Chetniks lost and Partisans won.

Originally Posted by Slavni

And there was a lot of Slovenians who were in Royal Army of General Mihailovic.

There were quite a few Croats in Chetniks as well. This however means absoutly nothing as there were also Serbs in Ustashe as well.

[Caesar Princeps]

For the little I have learnt about the subject, I know that at the end of 1943 there were both Partisans and Chetniks in Yugoslavia, as many Italian soldiers, chased by the Germans (entire divisions), disbanded and joined Chetnik formations, while at the same time, they were taken prisoner (and the officers were shot) by Titoist partisans. I have also read that by the end of the War, Tito had a 1-million Army so that Yugoslavia practically freed itself from Nazi, and so could maintain a certain indipendence from Soviet Union.

[Marcus Marulus]

...yawn...

Now these endless Croatian-Italian and Slovenian-Italian disputes are becoming almost as boring as endless Croatian-Serbian debates. Just trolling exercises. So I won't be posting anything here any more, unless the original subject of the thread, ie. historic borders of the SE Europe, becomes the main theme of discussion again.

[Pirate]

Originally Posted by Slavni

And there was a lot of Slovenians who were in Royal Army of General Mihailovic.Slovenians and Serbs are clear sample who shows that WW2 on Balkan was not war of Catholics and Orthodox,but Serbs and ex-Serbs who converted religion(to islam and to Catholicism).Slovenians are dear guests in Serbia.

Well, my opinion about Serbs in few sentences. Serbs betrayed our country back after WW1 when we got into SHS state, but I don't blame whole nation, only politicians. Although some Serb immigrants here are nothing more than trouble-makers, in general I have nothing against Serbs. I was in Serbia and I had great time there, the people I met there were friendly and honest.

I'm neutral on Croatian-Serbian conflict. As for Orthodoxy, I'm neutral on that too.

Originally Posted by Zrinski

Many yes, however they were clearly in minority. Have there been a Chetnik command somewhere in Slovenia they would surely choose chauvinist and hegemonistic Chetniks over Partisans any day.

Well, if they wanted to be Chetniks, they could become Chetniks back in Serbia.

[Zrinski]

Originally Posted by Caesar Princeps

For the little I have learnt about the subject, I know that at the end of 1943 there were both Partisans and Chetniks in Yugoslavia, as many Italian soldiers, chased by the Germans (entire divisions), disbanded and joined Chetnik formations, while at the same time, they were taken prisoner (and the officers were shot) by Titoist partisans. I have also read that by the end of the War, Tito had a 1-million Army so that Yugoslavia practically freed itself from Nazi, and so could maintain a certain indipendence from Soviet Union.

Yugoslavia was a total mess during WW2. There were at least seven-eight armies up there. We had: German Nazis, Italian Fascists, Hungarian nationalist army, Bulgarian nationalist army, Partisans, Ustashe, Chetniks, Croatian Homeguards, etc....you name it. There were even satellite regiments of Soviet Red Army composed of local Rusyns, Ukranians and Circassians.

Also each nation was basically in a civil war (this especially goes for Croats), so the Croats (for example) had: Ustashe (fascist quisling collaborators), Partisans (communists) and Homeguards (official army of Croatian Bannate in Kingdom of Yugoslavia). Others had mainly pro-fascists against pro-communist (Serbs for example - Chetniks against Partisans).

But you are right, Partisans were in the end victorious over them all and more and more people joined them as the war was coming to an end. Yugoslavia was the only country which effectively freed itself from the occupation from the foreign elements and also eliminated quisling collaborators such as Ustashe and Chetniks. Though of course Belgrade itself was freed by Soviets which only confirms my previous statements about Serbs in Partisans.

However it must be said that many neutral people and non-communists joined Tito's Partisans as they were the only one giving a real resistance to the Fascist/Nazi occupators and their local puppets. Have there been a resistance organized by the most powerful political party in Croatia the Croatian Peasant Party (HSS) great majority of people would join, however their indecisiveness and ambiguity led Croats to join Partisans on a massive scale.