Independent Montenegro?

[Zvonimir]

I've been reading news about Montenegro's independence. Authorities plan to make referendum later this year.

Comments?

Awar, for which option will you vote?

[Awar]

Well, I don't really care ... If Montenegro becomes a separate state, I'll take their passport

[The Croat]

So whats the opinion and feeling of the people in Montenegro these days. Does it look like Montenegro will go towards independence and what will the Serbs in Montenegro do if the majority do decide to pull away from Serbia? Is it possible that there could be conflict like what there was in the other republics that left previously?


Cheers

[Awar]

As always of the entire population of Montenegro, the feeling is 50/50 pro et contra.
From that number, the 50% who are against independence are ethnic Montenegrins.

The other 50% who are for independence are largely Muslims/Albanians.

[Zvonimir]

Awar, do Montenegrins today consider themselves as nation or as part of Serbian nation? I heard various opinions from them so I'm little confused.

[Awar]

Well, of those who are Orthodox Christians, some 25% is for independence, and most of them consider themselves a separate people, and want an independent church etc.

I don't really blame them anymore. In the last 15 years, all the governments in Serbia were acting against all of national interests, the government in Montenegro, while being extremely corrupt didn't make so much ruin. So, it's not hard to become sick of 'brotherhod' with Serbia.

The talk about separate languages is of course ridiculous, but, it's got support from their government. This is extremely negative, and causes conflicts, but, that's actually the goal of the Montenegrin government: to cause conflicts with Serbia.

Other than that, the current government of Montenegro also wants to flood the canyon of Tara. Just for some money they want to take for themselves immediately, they want to destroy the nature and ecology of Montenegro ( and the long-term potential for tourism, as Montenegro is a naturally beautiful place ). This speaks volumes about their REAL concerns ( making a quick buck ), but, they are very able to
redirect the anger of the people toward the incompetent government in Belgrade.

You know, the old 'produce-an-enemy' strategy, like from Orwell's 1984.
They blame everything on Belgrade, and it will only become apparent that
it's not a real threat only after they gain independence.

[White Falcon]

Originally Posted by Awar

The other 50% who are for independence are largely Muslims/Albanians.

Probably Croatians too.

[Nadvojvoda Janez Kranjski]

Originally Posted by Awar

Other than that, the current government of Montenegro also wants to flood the canyon of Tara. Just for some money they want to take for themselves immediately,

Why do they want to do that?

they want to destroy the nature and ecology of Montenegro ( and the long-term potential for tourism, as Montenegro is a naturally beautiful place ).

Indeed.

[Awar]

Originally Posted by White Falcon

Probably Croatians too.

Yep. Though, they are not as numerous and problematic as Albanians who have litterally taken over certain towns.

[Awar]

Originally Posted by Janez

Why do they want to do that?

To build a hydro power plant. Total idiotism, just like in communist times.

The Montenegrin ultra-chauvinists, the LSCG for example, while they were in power, managed to illegally sell some islands to foreigners. So, in reality, there isn't much difference, one side of the politicians wants to act all independent, but sell everything, and go into early retirement, the other want to ass-lick Belgrade. It's the ethnic people who suffer, and the nature is also destroyed thanks to this behaviour.

I'm a bit more on the side of those who are loyal to Serbia, because the pro-independence ones are for example acting as if Njegos ( the greatest ruler of Montenegro ) never existed, because he clearly declared himself as a Montenegrin SERB.

I've been to the monastery in Cetinje, and there they still keep his clothes.
He was some 215cm tall, typical Montenegrin. Yet, these people hide him, and promote some other rulers. The abysmally bad decisions of the Serbian government in the early 20th century are declared as some sort of centennial hatred between Serbs and Montenegrins etc. ( one of the main reasons for the hatred between Serbs and Croats were these idiocies by the Serbian royal government ).

In any case, the pro-independece guys propagate a lot of stuff which is mostly fake, and I don't like fakes.

[White Falcon]

Originally Posted by Awar

Yep. Though, they are not as numerous and problematic as Albanians who have litterally taken over certain towns.

Yes it is a shame.

the number of Croats in Kotor dropped from 69% in 1910 to 7% in 1991;
in Herceg Novi from 70% to 2%;
in Tivat from 95% to 23%


according to data from http://www.hr/darko/etf/et111.html#boka

[Awar]

Well, nobody expelled Croats from there, these are figures from the time when Kotor, HN and Tivat were much less populated cities. From those times, the tourism developed, and attracted lots of people from the villages.

So, their percentage dropped within those cities.

[White Falcon]

Events in 1991 played important role.

[Awar]

Nah... perhaps some moved to Croatia, but there's absolutely no chance of
1991. events decreasing the number of Croatians from 69% to only 8%.

In 1910. there was no tourism there, while, in 1991. it was in full flourishment.
These towns grew from a few hundred residents to ten thousand residents within a few years. The locals became outnumbered by other Montenegrins who came in from inner cities.

Everyone moved to the sea, when it became profitable.

[White Falcon]

Originally Posted by Awar

Nah... perhaps some moved to Croatia, but there's absolutely no chance of
1991. events decreasing the number of Croatians from 69% to only 8%..

Yes, It is what I am talking about, more than 300 families moved from Tivat to Croatia after 1991 as result of events in '91 ( without going deeper into problematic of conflict)

Originally Posted by Awar

In 1910. there was no tourism there, while, in 1991. it was in full flourishment.
These towns grew from a few hundred residents to ten thousand residents within a few years. The locals became outnumbered by other Montenegrins who came in from inner cities.

Everyone moved to the sea, when it became profitable.

Yes, I get what you were saying , and I agree on it.

[Awar]

hehe... but those cities together have some, I dunno, 100.000 - 150.000 people.
300 families are 1200 people max.

[White Falcon]

More than 300 from Tivat alone.

[Awar]

Oops

[White Falcon]