Independent Montenegro?

[Hrvoje]

It is important to note that Albanians in Montenegro are mostly Roman Catholic.

[Siegmund]

Originally Posted by Hrvoje

It is important to note that Albanians in Montenegro are mostly Roman Catholic.

The topic is interesting to me; can you explain why it is important?

[Slavni]

Originally Posted by Hrvoje

It is important to note that Albanians in Montenegro are mostly Roman Catholic.

They are 95% muslims like albos on Kosovo & Metohija
Ulcinj-Montenegro

[Hrvoje]

Originally Posted by Siegmund

The topic is interesting to me; can you explain why it is important?

Well, not for the elections per se, but for agenda that Serb nationalist are trying to push now to various groups on internet boards like racialist, WN, European nationalist , pan-Slavists ...etc. considering that to foreigner 1st association for Albanian is Muslim,
and thus trying to portray newly formed Montenegrin state as another re-emergence of Islam in Europe and alleged Montenegrin alignment with Islamists against "Serbian brothers" who are there to save and guard them from Islamist.

I have seen similar case in Croatian-Bosnian alliance against Serbs in Bosnian war,
in offering over simplistic explanation how this was religious/racial war in which Serbs are portraying them self as crusades carrying on "RAHOWA" in the region.

[Hrvoje]

Just what I was saying in post above, this will not be speared of Serbian lies and agenda...

Originally Posted by Slavni

They are 95% muslims like albos on Kosovo & Metohija
Ulcinj-Montenegro

>>>About 223,500 belong to the Greek Orthodox Church; 12,900 are Catholics (mostly Albanians) and about 14,000 are Mohammedans.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10529c.htm

Ulcinj-Montenegro

Belgrade-Serbia

[Slavni]

Originally Posted by Hrvoje

Belgrade-Serbia

We burned that ugly building

[Slavni]

Originally Posted by Galaico

I would like to know the differences too.

As far as I know, both Serbs and Montenegrins share the same language and religion, which are the main "ethnic borders" in the region, so what are the differences?

I cry for Serbia, it was the last nationalist state.

No difference,find answers here http://www.njegos.org/petrovics/wreath.htm

[Marcus Marulus]

The Montenegrins are still bitterly divided over the issue, even a year and a half later.

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by Hrvoje

It is important to note that Albanians in Montenegro are mostly Roman Catholic.

Apparently Albanians are troublemakers, regardless religion.

[Crvena zvezda]

Originally Posted by Hrvoje
It is important to note that Albanians in Montenegro are mostly Roman Catholic.

Says who. Albanian propagandists. Accroding to the montenegrin census the following is the truth:
- There are 21,972 Catholics in Montenegro. 8,126 of them (less then 40% of Catholics) are Albanian.
- there are 31,163 Albanians. That means less then a quarter of albanians in Montenegro are Catholic.

[Crvena zvezda]

Originally Posted by Plethon

The Montenegrins are still bitterly divided over the issue, even a year and a half later.

That's because the main reason for independence was not ethnic/national differences. The only area actually claiming to any great extent of total ethnic/national difference is Cetinje (the old royal capital) and that is more of Cetinje's desire to relive it's past glory and not come to reality that is nothing but a small insignificant town.

One of the reasons pro-independence won was because of instability in Serbia, the unresolved Kosovo status, comments made by the Soros funded G-17+ for the disintegration of Montenegro. However the main reason is economic. I have relatives who voted pro-independence because they knew that property prices and tourism would increase if Montenegro was independent instead of being in that disfunctional union with Serbia.

Most pro-independence forces are opportunists only looking after their own interests and power. Just look at them -- Jevrem Brkovic, Milo Djukanovic and Novak kilibarda. All of them were turbo-serbs and now they are seperatists.

[Rex Chroatorum]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

Apparently Albanians are troublemakers, regardless religion.

Not all of them, I agree that they are troublemakers in macedonia but situation on kosovo and in montenegro is quite different

[Kernunnos]

Originally Posted by Crvena zvezda

That's because the main reason for independence was not ethnic/national differences. The only area actually claiming to any great extent of total ethnic/national difference is Cetinje (the old royal capital) and that is more of Cetinje's desire to relive it's past glory and not come to reality that is nothing but a small insignificant town.

One of the reasons pro-independence won was because of instability in Serbia, the unresolved Kosovo status, comments made by the Soros funded G-17+ for the disintegration of Montenegro. However the main reason is economic. I have relatives who voted pro-independence because they knew that property prices and tourism would increase if Montenegro was independent instead of being in that disfunctional union with Serbia.

Most pro-independence forces are opportunists only looking after their own interests and power. Just look at them -- Jevrem Brkovic, Milo Djukanovic and Novak kilibarda. All of them were turbo-serbs and now they are seperatists.

Aren't they in business with neapolitan camorra and apulian Sacra Corona Unita (= mafia)?

[Crvena zvezda]

Originally Posted by Breha

Aren't they in business with neapolitan camorra and apulian Sacra Corona Unita (= mafia)?

Brkovic and Kilibarda have no connections to mafia's.

Djukanovic on the other hand is connected to various criminal groups in Italy. I remember in the 90s during the sanctions the government in Montenegro gave million dollar homes to Italian criminals in Bar, Montenegro for free.

[Crvena zvezda]

Originally Posted by Rex Chroatorum

Not all of them, I agree that they are troublemakers in macedonia but situation on kosovo and in montenegro is quite different

They are already making troubles in Montenegro. All the Albanian parties have called for ethnic regionalization in Montenegro and for autonomy in Montenegro. The Albanians on the border with Albania are armed and want to join Kosovo. In Tuzi (small town near Montenegrin capital) their have been violent protests over the last 1.5 years for it too be a seperate municipalities, the mayor's brother reportedly said that if the Montenegrin authorities do not do as the Albanians demand he will fire rockets on Podgorica.

Basically. Albanian's are troublemakers, end of story. The only exception in Montenegro is Ulcinj where the Catholic Albanians are concentrated and where their is a strong tourism industry. And even then last year and this year there were violent incidences in the Ulcinj area between Albanian "tourists" from Kosovo and non-Muslim Albanians there.

Also. How about the case of the Albanians from America who were planning to blow up the Montenegrin parliament.

Or how about Tom Lantos. A Jewish U.S. congressman who has tried to push a bill through congress demanding autonomy for Montenegro's Albanians because on a trip by several congressmen to Montenegro, the trip was funded by some albanian diaspora groups in the U.S., he was told that Montenegro was an "apartheid" state -- a very ridicoulous claim.

If anything, Albanians are a threat in Montenegro.

[Crvena zvezda]

Originally Posted by Faísca

So, you support the independence of Montenegro just for you to say officially you live in Serbia?

From an outsider's point of view, it is like tearing a people apart. And, as far as I'm concerned, I'm not only sad for Serbia, but also for Montenegro. Still it is not really my business, just stating my opinion.

I would like to hear our resident Montenigger's () -- Awar -- opinion on this.

It only shows the opportunism of the political eliter around Milo Djukanovic. 17 years ago they were some turbo-serbs and now they're seperatists (e.g. 17 years ago Djukanovic claimed he was so offended by the Croat flag that he would never play chess again, a statement so idiotic not even Seselj said something like that). It only shows his opportunism, I believe his support for independence is more to deal with him staying in power because since 1997 (when he became anti-Serb because of a dispute regarding cigarette smuggling with Milosevic's son) he has used the independence issue to keep himself in power and make promise like "Ones we are independant all our problems will be solved." Well, things have not improved only gotten worst.

The pro-independence result is nothing of a shock. The shock is that it only passed by 0.4% above the 55% criteria. I say this because the following irregularities occured:
1. Over 300,000 Montenegrin citizens in Serbia and some 120,000 in the EU could not vote. But a select few (around 15,000 -- mostly Albanians and Bosniaks) in America could vote. This is despite the fact that the Montenegrin constituion forbids anyone not resident in Montenegro for more then 6 months to vote. Those from America who voted likely did not meet this criteria. Most notably a former Muslim minister in Bosnia who hadn't lived in Montenegro since the 1980s was allowed to vote.
2. Prisoners were promised reduced sentences of at least 20% if they voted pro-independence. Again, this is clear sign of corruption since 3,500 prisoners voted.
3. More then 20,000 refugees could not vote despite meeting the residency requirement to vote.
4. Students abroad should have under the law been allowed to vote. However this was not the case. Around 10,000 travelled to vote and were not allowed to vote.
5. Government employees were threatened with firings if they did not vote for independence or risk losing their jobs.
6. Their were cases of bribery to get people to vote for independence, several cases were caught on film.
7. There were cases of people from Bosnia and Kosovo who lived in Montenegro for less then 6 months being able to vote.

Facts #2, #5 and #6 indicate that the vote was not held to democratic norms and thus under Montenegrin law the vote should be repreated or those votes invalidated. Facts #1, #3, #4 and #7 indicated that the referendum was not held in compliance with the Montenegrin law and constitution the same should be done as stated abov