Independent Montenegro?

[The Croat]

Originally Posted by Vožd

They returned a long time ago

I didnt mean via a summer residence, but in terms of political control like in a constitutional monarchy - eg, like in Britain, Spain etc

cheers

[Zrinski]

Montenegro has narrowly voted for independence from its union with Serbia, unofficial projections show.

Indications are that 55.3% of voters elected to secede from Serbia, just above the 55% required for victory.

Prime Minister Milo Djukanovic claimed early on Monday that his drive for independence had been successful.

But official results are not expected for several hours. If confirmed, the independence vote would erase the last vestige of the former Yugoslavia.

"Tonight, with the majority decision by the citizens of Montenegro, the independence of the country has been renewed," said Mr Djukanovic.

The question of independence has deeply divided Montenegro, with its opponents arguing that it will damage economic, family and political ties with Serbia.

The opposition leader who spearheaded the campaign against independence, Predrag Bulatovic, said his camp would not admit defeat based on an "arbitrary estimate by a monitoring group".

"The results are not final until they are confirmed by the state referendum commission," he said, urging the government to ask its supporters to leave the streets.

"Such a crucial decision must not be carried out by a trick," Mr Bulatovic said.

Serb politicians, Orthodox church leaders and Montenegrins from the mountainous inland regions bordering Serbia broadly opposed secession.

However, ethnic Montenegrins and Albanians from the coastal area largely back the prime minister and favoured independence.

Mr Djukanovic argued that an independent Montenegro will have a stronger economy and will be a better candidate for admission into the European Union.

Record turn-out

Indications that the pro-independence bloc may have won the vote prompted celebrations in the Montenegrin capital, Podgorica.

The tooting of car horns filled the city and youths were seen waving the red and gold flag of the old Montenegrin monarchy. The country was last independent in 1918.


Opponents of independence said the economy would suffer

Guns and fireworks were let off in celebration.

Polls opened early on Sunday morning and turnout was said to have surpassed a record 85%.

Voters, some of them dressed in their Sunday best clothes, pondered the referendum question: "Do you want Montenegro to be an independent state with full international and legal legitimacy?"

In the days preceding the vote, thousands of Montenegrins living abroad were invited back to the country to cast their ballot.

The country has a population of fewer than 700,000 people, so the vote of the diaspora was considered as crucial by both camps.

Montenegro's loose union with Serbia was established in 2003, replacing what was left of the former Yugoslavia.

Both sides were given the option of electing to leave the union after three years.

The last time Montenegro was independent was nearly 90 years ago at the end of World War I, when it was absorbed into the newly-formed Yugoslavia.

In the days running up to the vote, thousands of Montenegrins living abroad have travelled home in order to cast their ballot.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/5003220.stm

[Zrinski]

Poll: Montenegro quits Serbia

Crowds celebrate in capital as unofficial results show breakup

Sunday, May 21, 2006; Posted: 8:29 p.m. EDT (00:29 GMT)

Pro-independence supporters celebrate on Sunday night after unofficial poll results were released.

PODGORICA, Serbia-Montenegro (CNN) -- Voters in Montenegro decided narrowly to sever the country's union with Serbia, a move that would break up the last two pieces of the former Yugoslavia, unofficial poll returns from Sunday's referendum indicated.

The election watchdog group CEMI said late Sunday that 55.5 percent of the more than 410,000 voters who cast ballots supported independence -- just over the 55 percent required for the question to pass.

"I'm sure that tonight a democratic Montenegro will be celebrated," said Prime Minister Milo Djukanovic, whose Democratic Party of Socialists had pushed for Montenegro's full independence.

Opposition spokesman Predrag Bulatovic disputed those projections, saying supporters fell short of the required margin of victory. But Predrag Sekulic, a spokesman for Djukanovic's party, said, "There is no doubt we won."

Though official results are not expected until Monday, people began celebrating inside government buildings Sunday night, and fireworks illuminated the center of the Montenegrin capital Podgorica.

Official returns will be released at 10 a.m (0800 GMT) Monday, the head of the state electoral commission, Frantishek Lipka, said, according to The Associated Press.

"With only over 50 percent of the vote counted, I cannot give you preliminary results," Lipka said, AP reported.

At stake is whether Europe will see the formation of a new country. Montenegro would be a small, mountainous nation along the Adriatic Sea with a total population of about 650,000 residents.

Montenegro had been one of six republics within Yugoslavia before the country's violent unraveling in 1991. In 2003, after nearly a decade of war and political upheaval, Serbia and Montenegro replaced what remained of the Yugoslav federation with a loose union.

Djukanovic has pushed for full independence, arguing the country would have a better chance of joining the European Union if separated from Serbia.

That argument was bolstered in the last month, when Serbia's Belgrade government failed to deliver Gen. Ratko Mladic, an indicted Serb war criminal, to a U.N. war crimes tribunal in The Hague.

Once an independent kingdom, Montenegro was erased from the map after World War I and merged into the newly formed Yugoslavia. Many Montenegrins resisted, and a seven-year guerrilla war followed. After World War II, the six-republic Yugoslavia became communist.

During the federation's breakup in the 1990s, Montenegro's leaders sided with Serbian President Slobodan Milosevic -- who would later stand trial for war crimes -- in his war campaigns in Slovenia, Croatia and Bosnia.

[Demoritus]

Finally! I've waited for this for a long time.. I can finally say I live in Serbia, and not in some false union named Serbia & Montenegro or Yugoslavia.

[Hrvoje]

Great news for Montenegro , good luck.

[Menydh]

With a long enduring smashing pressure from the US and UN, and with only 55% of supporting votes (which still leaves a 45% of non-supporting votes), I don't see how this can be a reason for joy.

[Routasydän]

What is the difference between a Montenegrin and a Serb?

And no, this is not the beginning of a lame joke.

[Hrvoje]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

With a long enduring smashing pressure from the US and UN,

The mentioned actually were not much in favor of independence,
the referendum was conditioned by EU to be recognized only if
55%+1 votes were in favor of independence instead of usual 50%+1,
which is unique case in history.

and with only 55% of supporting votes (which still leaves a 45% of non-supporting votes),

Only some 43% citizens of Montenegro are Montenegrins.

I don't see how this can be a reason for joy.

Maybe not to outsider who holds different views,
but it certainly is for Montenegrins.

What is the difference between a Montenegrin and a Serb?

They are just two different ethnic groups,closely related, each aware of her self and her uniqueness, simplest explanation.

[Routasydän]

Originally Posted by Hrvoje

They are just two different ethnic groups,closely related, each aware of her self and her uniqueness, simplest explanation.

I might be completely and utterly wrong, but I recall reading, that the way Montenegrins identify themselves has changed quite dramatically in quite a short period, that while most Montenegrins used to identify themselves as Serbs, many now identify themselves as Montenegrin. Most Finnish regions have some unique characteristics, but they don't have nationalist ambitions but identify themselves as Finns. I would be surprised if Finnish Karelia suddenly started seeing itself as Karelian as opposed to Finnish.

I'm just interested what the story behind this is.

[Menydh]

Also, I've been assuming that within the union there has been degree of preservation for the different identities. If not during the ex-Yugoslavia Republic, at least during the union of Serbia and Montenegro.

[Ferran]

Montenegro independence: Readers react

Montenegro has voted for independence from its union with Serbia.

Two Montenegrin voters and two Serbians gave their reaction to the BBC News website and look ahead to the challenges facing both countries in the wake of the result.


DEJAN KNEZEVIC, 26, ECONOMICS GRADUATE, NIKSIC, MONTENEGRO

It's very difficult for me to accept this result. I voted against independence and really didn't expect to lose.

But the people of Montenegro have voted and we will have to accept this defeat.

It was the Muslim, Albanian and Croat minorities who voted for independence.

The Orthodox Serbs - of which I am one - who make up one-third of the population will find it hard to accept this defeat.

Things will get worse for Montenegro now, I believe.

The best choice was to remain part of a strong union with Serbia. Montenegro is too small to survive alone.

"It won't be better for ordinary people. It will only get worse"

This win will only benefit the ruling government who, I think, will try and create a private state that only serves the interest of themselves and their tycoon friends.

They don't want to form a democratic independent state.

I will now try and leave Montenegro and move to Belgrade. There will be no more opportunities for Serbs here.

Corruption is high in this country, as is crime. The salaries are some of the lowest in Europe, yet there are the select few at the top who have all the money.

I also don't think our prime minister really wants EU membership for his people.

He only wants to serve his own interests and those of his rich friends.

I'm really disappointed because Serbia was a great country, but this is just another occasion when it is on the losing side.


DUSKO PETROVIC, 40, MANAGER , IT COMPANY, PODGORICA, MONTENEGRO

This result finally confirms what we expected - that the people of Montenegro want an independent state.

It is better for us to be separated from Serbia. It is particularly beneficial to our economy and good for small businesses.

It will be better for us coming from a smaller market, particularly when we join the EU, which I now expect will happen in the next few years.

We have two very different economies in Serbia and Montenegro.

We use the euro in Montenegro whereas Serbia still use the Dinar. With the euro has come monetary stability.

I believe Serbia and Montenegro will have better relations as independent states.

"After suffering in the past with division, instability, and Nato bombings, it is now time for us - like many in this region - to move on"

It has been hard to make things work as one federal state. We always had to wait much longer for crucial decisions from Belgrade.

Now we can make our own decisions much quicker and in our own interest.

We need to look to the future now and promote tourism in Montenegro and persuade our young people to stay.

I am not fully happy that the vote was so close and that so many people still think differently.

However, after suffering in the past with division, instability, and Nato bombings, it is now time for us - like many in this region - to move on.


ZELJKO KOSTIC, 28, ARMY SERGEANT, BELGRADE, SERBIA

We are all Serbs and it is foolish for the people of one nation to live in two separate bordering countries.

We are destroying ourselves. It's really bad that we keep separating from each other. Kosovo will probably be next.

The world is watching and they must think we are a bunch of loonies.

Both governments should have sat down together in Belgrade and worked out a better solution than this.

Then again both governments are corrupt.

"Montenegro is already one of the poorest countries in Europe but now I think it will get even poorer"

It really hurts to live here. People are really disappointed the Serbian government has not done anything to improve our lives. There is no real sense of democracy.

As for what will happen in Montenegro after independence, I can only see a difficult situation for the people living there.

The Albanians, I think, will seek control of their own areas.

There is already a big division between northern and southern Montenegro and I see this getting worse.

The people in the north need Serb support and they will find it hard to survive without it.

Independence will definitely hurt the people of Montenegro more that Serbia.

Montenegro is already one of the poorest countries in Europe but now I think it will get even poorer.

They have turned their backs on us now, so we won't be going there on holidays, which will hurt their crucial tourism industry.

Also this has hurt our chances of EU membership. We had a better chance when we were together.


JANJA BOBIC, 36, WEB DESIGNER, BELGRADE, SERBIA

The people of Montenegro have made the right decision.

It was only a matter of time until this happened.

Montenegro was already independent in many ways.

This just confirms their independence.

The 'federation' of Serbia and Montenegro functioned only in the hearts and minds of nostalgic people in this country.

In reality, the two countries only had loose ties.

"Kosovo's independence will also surely follow by the end of the year"

At least our government will not now have to be obligated to support two governments and two populations.

Independence will give the people of Montenegro more opportunities as well, like paving the way to their own EU membership.

Kosovo's independence will also surely follow by the end of the year.

If only the division of all parts of the former Yugoslavia could have been solved like this - by votes instead of war.



Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/5005072.stm

[Galaico]

Originally Posted by wilpuri

What is the difference between a Montenegrin and a Serb?

And no, this is not the beginning of a lame joke.

I would like to know the differences too.

As far as I know, both Serbs and Montenegrins share the same language and religion, which are the main "ethnic borders" in the region, so what are the differences?

I cry for Serbia, it was the last nationalist state.

[Faísca]

Originally Posted by Demoritus

Finally! I've waited for this for a long time.. I can finally say I live in Serbia, and not in some false union named Serbia & Montenegro or Yugoslavia.

So, you support the independence of Montenegro just for you to say officially you live in Serbia?

From an outsider's point of view, it is like tearing a people apart. And, as far as I'm concerned, I'm not only sad for Serbia, but also for Montenegro. Still it is not really my business, just stating my opinion.

I would like to hear our resident Montenigger's () -- Awar -- opinion on this.

[Gil]

Ya, he's been away for some time now.... probably busy with life and school and all...

[Zrinski]

Originally Posted by wilpuri

I might be completely and utterly wrong, but I recall reading, that the way Montenegrins identify themselves has changed quite dramatically in quite a short period, that while most Montenegrins used to identify themselves as Serbs, many now identify themselves as Montenegrin.

Prior to unification with Serbia and before that no one in Montenegro ever refered to himself as a Serb there. Then in early 20th century with King Nikola Petrovic Njegos of Montenegro saw a chance and started calling himself a Serb and his people Serbs although they didn't saw themselves as such for his own personal goals - to rule a new Empire/Kingdom rising from the ashes of Ottoman Empire. That was his biggest mistake he ever made as he was dethroned and exiled, his people forced to declare as Serbs(if you wanted to declare as Montenegrin you would go to jail) annexed his country and abolished all institutions of Montenegro including indepedent autocephalous Montenegrin Orthodox Church. All with the blessing of the 'Allies' although Montenegro fought on the their side in WW1. Later with arrival of communist and liberalisation of Yugoslavia after WW2 people in all of Yugoslavia were again free to declare as they wished and over 90% in Montenegro as well as in other countries, namely Serbia, declared as Montenegrins. After the breakup of Yugoslavia it was again that many people started declaring as Serbs in Montenegro due to nationalistic propaganda and pressure(which still continues) as well as large influx of Serbs from other regions of ex-Yugoslavia, namely Bosnia and Herzegovina and Kosovo. Today some more than 30% of people there declare as Serbs but this is mostly political affiliation as those pro-union Montenegrins also started declaring as such. The real number of Serb there is about just above 9%.

The point is Montenegrin history is different than the Serbian one and Montenegrins had their state while Serbs were still a pashaluk in the Ottoman Empire.

What is the difference between Montenegrin and a Serb? What is the difference between Czech and Slovak? Dane and Norwegian? Russian and Ukranian?