Slovenian-Croatian relationship

[M.R.]

In light of recent events (Joras, border disputes which have become quite a hot topic in last years, following all those 'incidents' etc.), I'd like to see the opinion of Croat members on this issue.

Opinion about the 2 nations in general and our historical relationships is also welcome.

[KaloMatt]

I don't think that a couple of pathologists who were looking for attention should effect on our attitude

[M.R.]

It's more complicated, the attitude of both Slovenians and Croats is quite anti-Croat / anti-Slovenian, anyone from those 2 countries can notice that, I'm not saying all people have such views, but a lot of them do. It's not only about people like Joras but about the whole territorial issue and also certain issues from history. I'll write more later.

[KaloMatt]

Ok, let's set Joras aside.

You notice correcly. This "stupid" affair throws bad picture on common people.
But the important fact this that only Italy profits in this dispute. ( sea )

Othervise, I've noticed that Slovenian youth gets bad impression concerning Croats most in urban environments that are expanded by Serbs.
Expecially after the war. Example: Term "Hrvat" is rarely used.. #1 for describing is "Ustaša" or "Ujko".

Don't get me wrong,
I've got very good opinion about Slovenes (after all i live here) because they're cultural and honest nation.

[M.R.]

I don't even view Joras as some kind of important figure here, I just mentioned him because of the attention he got now and somehow made the conflict about border 'hot topic' again here.

Anyway, I wouldn't really consider certain anti-Croat attitudes here as being part of Serb immigration problem, you can find people who dislike Croats all around Slovenia, the percentage of Serbian immigrant population doesn't really matter, and beside this, I think 'čefurji' are rather pro-Croat in a way of promoting some false 'Balkan brotherhood' cover for their anti-Slovenianism.

However I do agree that most of this anti-Croat attitude is present mostly because of border disputes, which are, to me, only a political game and supported only by politicians on both sides, for their own (sick) agendas.

Personaly, I always had quite positive view of Croatian people, I think it's a shame that those two nations can't be more friendly, considering we're both Catholic nations, quite close culturally (especialy Croats from Slavonia, Medžimurje/Medmurje and Zagorje, my father always told me that we 'Prekmurci' have more in common with 'Medžimurci' than with 'Kranjci' ), didn't have much problems in the past (although there were some - Illyrism, Ustasha occupation of Slovenian land, lack of support during millitary uprisings in 1919 in Slovenia, claiming Prekmurje... - but comparing to conflicts we had with other nations, it's not that big deal), I hope that in future we would have more friendly relationship, after all we had quite simmilar enemies in the past (I'm sure that those are not only enemies of the past, at least not for my nation) - Germanic imperialism, Italian imperialism, Hungarian chauvinism...

P.S.: Just in case to avoid any missunderstandings, me pointing out historical problems we had with Croats is not accusation or something, it's just that - poiting them out, that's all, it's what any nationalist would do.

[Heretik]

I'm ready for war.

[KaloMatt]

I don't even view Joras as some kind of important figure here, I just mentioned him because of the attention he got now and somehow made the conflict about border 'hot topic' again here.

True.

Ustasha occupation of Slovenian land

NDH invaded 20 square meters of Slovene territory. So I don't see that as some "occupation". But don't think I'm some Ustasi freak who gets excisted thought on hammer. I don't have good opinion od NDH anyway

But like you said Hungary, Austria, Germany or Italy were never your ally or friend. But we were / are

[M.R.]

Originally Posted by KaloMatt

NDH invaded 20 square meters of Slovene territory. So I don't see that as some "occupation". But don't think I'm some Ustasi freak who gets excisted thought on hammer. I don't have good opinion od NDH anyway

As I said, it's not really accusation, it's just mentioning it, so everyone knows what I see as 'problems of the past' with Croats, for example, one would maybe think I consider Istra as problem, since there are many Slovenians claiming it, I view this issue however as controversial one.

As for Ustasha occupation, no matter how small it is (it was few villages), it's still sacred Slovenian land for me, there were also some other issues with Ustashas (terrorizing local population), but it's not really important, as I said, this is no big deal and I'm ready to consider it as 'problem of the past'. I'm all for Croatian-Slovenian friendship in the future.

I don't consider you as some Ustasha freak of course.

[Monolith]

Regarding Slovenes, I have always considered them as friendly people who share a great part of common history with my own people. I've also noticed that these recent events concerning the border are just an easy way for Slovenian politicians to collect political points, for most of them occur prior to elections. Also, that Joras character is responsible for most incidents outside the latter period. The way I see it, it's favorable for them to induce rivalry and even animosity between the two nations in order to draw the attention of their voters to this matter of "great significance"... My father said to me once that most of the troubles are caused by the Kranjci, a Slovenian ethnic subdivision. Whether this is true, I don't know. I leave to M.R. to be the judge of that.

[KaloMatt]

Croats and Slovenian may not leave this group of morons(Joras, Jelinčič - who's slovenized Croat...)
to endangers out relationship.

As for Ustasha occupation, no matter how small it is (it was few villages), it's still sacred Slovenian land for me, there were also some other issues with Ustashas (terrorizing local population),

Maybe, but NDH accepted 200.000 slovenian refugees who were forced to left their homes,
because of the German plan of annexing parts of the Slovenian territories.

Again, NDH was not the "ideally" state for Croats. Acctualy I'm disregarding it.

[M.R.]

Originally Posted by Monolith

My father said to me once that most of the troubles are caused by the Kranjci, a Slovenian ethnic subdivision. Whether this is true, I don't know. I leave to M.R. to be the judge of that.

Not really 'ethnic subdivision', Kranjska (Carniola) was a duchy, covering different Slovenian regions (regional identities), but the term is somehow still popular, there are a lot of stereotypes, sure. As for the troubles caused by them, I don't know what to say really, if you mean this border dispute, maybe, I don't know, it's really hard to say in which region anti-Croat attitude is the strongest.

[KaloMatt]

I don't think there's region in Slovenia where all population can't stand the Croats.

[Marulus]

The problem between the two nations regards mostly controversies over the frontier, especially that on the sea. Were it not for the frontier question, I do not see what could possible be another source of animosity between Slovenians and Croatians.

I am omitting the usual anecdotal bickering which can be found everywhere between neighbours and boils down mostly to sustaining stereotypical views about the other. That is quite harmless. But the frontier issue is a serious one.