Srbi iznad Sarajeva postavljaju divovski križ

[Vincent]

SARAJEVO - Na padinama planine Trebević, koja dominira nad Sarajevom, uskoro bi trebao biti podignut veliki križ koji bi podsjećao na Srbe poginule tijekom rata u Bosni i Hercegovini - najavili su predstavnici udruga iz Republike Srpske koje okupljaju obitelji stradalih i nestalih te bivših zatočenika.

Predsjednica organizacije obitelji poginulih i nestalih iz Istočnog Sarajeva, Mirjana Simanić, potvrdila je kako ta organizacija stoji iza zamisli o podizanju pravoslavnog križa na mjestu Zlatište, vidljivom iz gotovo svakog djela Sarajeva.
- To će biti nešto kao križ u Mostaru, a to je i normalno, drugačije ne može - u ponedjeljak "Oslobođenje" citira njezinu izjavu.

Budući betonski križ, koji bi od 2009. godine trebao dominirati nad Sarajevom, bio bi visok 26, a širok 18 metara i po dimenzijama bi bio tek nešto manji od onog na mostarskom brdu Hum. Također bi bio osvijetljen reflektorima te tako vidljiv i u noćnim satima. Izvedba cijelog projekta stajala bi oko 120 tisuća eura.

Promicatelji zamisli o gradnji križa nad Sarajevom drže kako bi on bio odgovarajući spomenik prije svega Srbima koji su stradali tijekom rata na području Sarajeva. Prema dostupnim podacima, tijekom opsade Sarajeva od 1993. do 1995. godine poginulo je više od 11 tisuća njegovih građana, no u udrugama iz RS drže da ti podaci nisu točni te da ne obuhvaćaju na tisuće Srba koji su također stradali. Kako bi se ti navodi provjerili, utemeljeno je i posebno parlamentarno povjerenstvo, no ono do danas nije završilo rad.
Gradnji križa iznad Sarajeva za sada se javno usprotivila samo izvanparlamentarna Narodna bošnjačka stranka (NBS).

U priopćenju te stranke, objavljenom u ponedjeljak, navodi se kako bi gradnja križa na Zlatištu, gdje je bilo jedno od zapovjednih mjesta vojske koja je opsjedala grad, predstavljala uvredu za sve žrtve opsade.

- Spomenik u obliku križa od 26 metara smatramo izrazom provokacije, a ne stvarne sućuti i spomena na srpske žrtve - stiče NBS.

Predsjednik Saveza logoraša RS Branislav Dukić također smatra kako bi gradnja križa iznad Sarajeva mogla biti shvaćena kao provokacija, no ustvrdio je da se ni drugi ne ponašaju bolje. Naveo je primjer memorijalnog centra u Potočarima kod Srebrenice rekavši kako se tamo viju "ratne zastave Armije BiH".

Dukić tvrdi da je problem u tome što u BiH nema zakona koji bi uredio ovo područje pa svatko gradi što mu padne napamet.
Budući križ, iako namijenjen prije svega pogledima Sarajlija, među kojima je sada gotovo 90 posto Bošnjaka, bit će podignut na teritoriju općine Istočno Novo Sarajevo, nad kojom vlasti glavnog grada BiH nemaju nikakvog utjecaja pa tu gradnju zakonskim putem ne mogu ni osporiti.

Izvor

[Arthur Gordon Pym]

Znači, Trebević se nalazi u Republici Srpskoj?

[Vincent]

Klasični bosanski/balkanski (ili kako već da ga nazovem) debilizam

Ljudi gladuju i pate, a sa druge strane nemaju ništa bolje raditi nego jedni drugima prkositi postavljajući krstove, križeve, minatere, ili šta već.

Zar nebi bilo bolje da se novac utrošio u pomaganju porodicama tih poginulih? Pa da se od ostataka izgradi jedan dostojan i miroljubiv spomenik, pa i u samom centru Sarajeva.

Ali ovo je čista provokacija i preseravanje, i uvreda svim ljudima ovoga grada bez obzira kojoj grupi pripadali.

[Vincent]

Originally Posted by Marulus

Znači, Trebević se nalazi u Republici Srpskoj?

U federaciji je većinom, ali je tu negdje granica sa RS. Tako nekako. Znam da dosta ulažu sada za ponovnom izgradnju žičare na Trebeviću.

'Na vrh gore Trebevića u logoru Francetića...'

[Arthur Gordon Pym]

Ipak, članak implicira da se dio Trebevića, na kojem će se graditi križ nalazi u Novom ("Srpskom"?) Sarajevu. Premda Jutarnji prišt češće nije nego što jest pouzdan izvor informacija...

Tema je zanimljiva. S jedne strane, može se reći da svatko ima pravo komemorirati svoje mrtve, u skladu sa svojom vjerskom tradicijom (u pitanju mrtvih religija je nešto što vrlo često dolazi do izražaja, što je razumljivo). S druge strane, u Bosni je to osjetljiva tema: češće se nego o komemoriranju, radi o prkošenju drugima. Podsjeća me na ono što si jednom rekao o džamiji koja se gradi nasuprot novoizgrađenoj katoličkoj crkvi premda za džamiju nema potrebe, budući da postoji već jedna u blizini koja je i onako uglavom poluprazna za vrijeme vjerske službe. Ako se dobro sjećam, čak je i zemljište posebno kupljeno da bi se na tom mjestu mogla graditi džamija, samo da bi "kontrirala" novoj katoličkoj crkvi koja se nalazi nasuprot. Ova dva slučaja podsjetila su me ujedno i na jednu Andrićevu kratku priču-esej (Andrić je bio velikosrbin, ali i on je ponekad mogao reći nešto što stoji), u kojoj je metaforički označio vrške minareta džamija i tornjeve katoličkih i pravoslavnih crkava kao neke šiljke iliti bodeže koji se trude jedan drugoga ubosti (premda prividno teže Nebu).

[Vincent]

Originally Posted by Marulus

Ipak, članak implicira da se dio Trebevića, na kojem će se graditi križ nalazi u Novom ("Srpskom"?) Sarajevu. Premda Jutarnji prišt češće nije nego što jest pouzdan izvor informacija...

Tema je zanimljiva. S jedne strane, može se reći da svatko ima pravo komemorirati svoje mrtve, u skladu sa svojom vjerskom tradicijom (u pitanju mrtvih religija je nešto što vrlo često dolazi do izražaja, što je razumljivo). S druge strane, u Bosni je to osjetljiva tema: češće se nego o komemoriranju, radi o prkošenju drugima. Podsjeća me na ono što si jednom rekao o džamiji koja se gradi nasuprot novoizgrađenoj katoličkoj crkvi premda za džamiju nema potrebe, budući da postoji već jedna u blizini koja je i onako uglavom poluprazna za vrijeme vjerske službe. Ako se dobro sjećam, čak je i zemljište posebno kupljeno da bi se na tom mjestu mogla graditi džamija, samo da bi "kontrirala" novoj katoličkoj crkvi koja se nalazi nasuprot. Ova dva slučaja podsjetila su me ujedno i na jednu Andrićevu kratku priču-esej (Andrić je bio velikosrbin, ali i on je ponekad mogao reći nešto što stoji), u kojoj je metaforički označio vrške minareta džamija i tornjeve katoličkih i pravoslavnih crkava kao neke šiljke iliti bodeže koji se trude jedan drugoga ubosti (premda prividno teže Nebu).

Ne znam kako je Trebević tačno podjeljen. Morao bih nekoga upitati.

I da, taj slučaj sa džamijom je veoma sličan, tj. isto sve (bijedne provokacije), samo što je ovo oko križa na Trebeviću u većim razmjerama.

A za to od Andrića nisam ni znao. Dobro je. Moram zpamtiti

[Crvena zvezda]

Umesto samo kukati neka onda Muslimani naprave veci Muslimanski simbol negde u Sarajevo.

[Arthur Gordon Pym]

Jednom kad počne natjecanje...Sarajevo bi moglo postati puno vjerskih simbola viših od njujorških nebodera....

[Vincent]

Originally Posted by Crvena zvezda

Umesto samo kukati neka onda Muslimani naprave veci Muslimanski simbol negde u Sarajevo.

Dokle tako? Samo mi još to treba... ogromni turski polumjesec iznad grada. Ma divno

Nisu samo muslimani koji se bune, nego i Hrvati u Sarajevu, i neki Srbi.

[M.R.]

I don't see any problem with it. It's a monument, why not have a cross and show everyone it's a Christian land? Particularly in Balkans where there always has been a Muslims threat.

[Crvena zvezda]

Originally Posted by M.R.

I don't see any problem with it. It's a monument, why not have a cross and show everyone it's a Christian land? Particularly in Balkans where there always has been a Muslims threat.

Simple. Muslims want a monopoly on new large religous structures. Every mosque financed by the Saudi's and others since the end of the war was built under the Islamic rule that any mosque must be larger then the nearest Church.

[Vincent]

Originally Posted by Crvena zvezda

Simple. Muslims want a monopoly on new large religous structures. Every mosque financed by the Saudi's and others since the end of the war was built under the Islamic rule that any mosque must be larger then the nearest Church.

In Sarajevo, the only mosques that were built after the war are in the newer part of town. There you have only 2 catholic churches, one rather small, so no wonder mosques (2 of them) are larger. The most churches you got in the old part, and the only mosques there stand since the Ottoman rule.

So this statement of yours is not true.

But that there is a systematic islamisation of Sarajevo financed by the Saudi's is quite clear. For example the plans to build mosques (the size does not matter, really) in the Austrian part of town, building them where no building was supposed to stand ever (but in every narrow street you can squeeze a small mosque).
Also, someone (no idea who) has put Hadith on posters all over town. Now, the messages written on it aren't that bad (mostly 'value human life', 'be good to your neighbour' etc. ) but it is clear, together with all other clues, that it does not have a spiritual goal, rather a political, islamisation, like I mentioned before.
Besides this, they want to teach about islam in the kindergarten. The majority of the children is muslim (70 to 90 %). The non-islamic kids (or rather babies) would stand beside, alone, while their friends are at the islamic lessons. They would fell rejected, and no parent wants to have his child in such a position. So something tells me that some would rather send their children to be taught about islam too.

An interesting fact is that muslims from Sandžak seem to be, in most cases, the creators of all of this.

--------------------------------------

But this cross is a completly different story. They want to put it on the same place from wich they shot on Sarajevo, and killed everything regardless of sex, age or nationality.

The fact is though, Bosniaks would be against a catholic cross over Sarajevo too. You are therefor partly right, accusing them being anti-christian.

But bear in mind that I am against it, for the same reasson you would not want a German (or rather nazi) symbol over Belgrade.

Serbian symbol in the center of Sarajevo to honour the fallen Serbs who fought for this town, of course, but no symbol over it for the one who killed it inhabitans. If these kind of "soldiers" need a monument, they got Pale for it to be erected.

---------------------------

EDIT: I ask myself would you call anyone in Croatia 'anti-christian' if they were against a orthodox cross-monument in Vukovar, for the fallen Serbian 'soldiers' there.

[Crvena zvezda]

Originally Posted by Vincent

In Sarajevo, the only mosques that were built after the war are in the newer part of town. There you have only 2 catholic churches, one rather small, so no wonder mosques (2 of them) are larger. The most churches you got in the old part, and the only mosques there stand since the Ottoman rule.

So this statement of yours is not true.

This just reaffirms what I said, "Under Islamic law a mosque must be built larger then the nearest church." More have been built in the rest of bosnia, not only that but every once in a whjile I see reports of a planned "mega-mosque" in Sarajeo.

Besides this, they want to teach about islam in the kindergarten. The majority of the children is muslim (70 to 90 %). The non-islamic kids (or rather babies) would stand beside, alone, while their friends are at the islamic lessons. They would fell rejected, and no parent wants to have his child in such a position. So something tells me that some would rather send their children to be taught about islam too.

An interesting fact is that muslims from Sandžak seem to be, in most cases, the creators of all of this.

But this cross is a completly different story. They want to put it on the same place from wich they shot on Sarajevo, and killed everything regardless of sex, age or nationality.

The fact is though, Bosniaks would be against a catholic cross over Sarajevo too. You are therefor partly right, accusing them being anti-christian.

If a cross can get built on the hill outside Mostar, why not in Sarajevo?

[Vincent]

Originally Posted by Crvena zvezda

If a cross can get built on the hill outside Mostar, why not in Sarajevo?

I even don't agree with the cross there very much, but since half of Mostar is Croatian, I also don't see a problem with it.

And like I said, why not build a orthodox cross somewhere so that it can only be visible in 'srpsko Sarajevo', since it is for Serbs, and not Croats and Bosniaks (who are the majority in Sarajevo).

If they wanted to put a decent monument to the fallen Serbs somewhere IN Sarajevo, there would not be any problem. But building a 28 m high one, on the same place where their guns stood 13 years ago, is nothing more then propostures.

This just reaffirms what I said, "Under Islamic law a mosque must be built larger then the nearest church."

And that's why they built in 'Novi Grad' a mosque 5 times smaller next to a catholic church? I don't deny the real goals of the Islamic Community they want to achieve by building them, but this 'must be larger' matter you are talking about is not true, at least not here.

but every once in a whjile I see reports of a planned "mega-mosque" in Sarajeo

I've heard about a big mosque, still in planning, but not bigger then this wahhabi one in the new part of town, built by saudi's directly after the war.

Well, what now? Many muslims, many mosques. If it makes them happy, not my problem. I'm feed up already, and I'm planing to move away in maybe 2-3 years, probably to Zagreb or Munich. So, problem solved.

[Crvena zvezda]

Originally Posted by Vincent

I even don't agree with the cross there very much, but since half of Mostar is Croatian, I also don't see a problem with it.

And like I said, why not build a orthodox cross somewhere so that it can only be visible in 'srpsko Sarajevo', since it is for Serbs, and not Croats and Bosniaks (who are the majority in Sarajevo).

If they wanted to put a decent monument to the fallen Serbs somewhere IN Sarajevo, there would not be any problem. But building a 28 m high one, on the same place where their guns stood 13 years ago, is nothing more then propostures.

And that's why they built in 'Novi Grad' a mosque 5 times smaller next to a catholic church? I don't deny the real goals of the Islamic Community they want to achieve by building them, but this 'must be larger' matter you are talking about is not true, at least not here.



I've heard about a big mosque, still in planning, but not bigger then this wahhabi one in the new part of town, built by saudi's directly after the war.

Well, what now? Many muslims, many mosques. If it makes them happy, not my problem. I'm feed up already, and I'm planing to move away in maybe 2-3 years, probably to Zagreb or Munich. So, problem solved.

Their were guns on that hill used to shell Mostar. If the cross was built in Mostar despite a similar situation like the one in Sarajevo regarding the building of this one, then the one in Sarajevo should be built.

Furthermore. The Serbs have tried to build a monument in Sarajevo to Serb who died during the siege. It was rejected by the authorities on several occasions.