Medieval tombstones in Bosnia

[Aramis]

+ YouTube Video

+ YouTube Video

Does anyone of you has his own theories about who made them, under the influence of what religion, culture etc.?

If you have some photos of them, than post.

[Monolith]

What is known about the people buried underneath them? Are there any skeletal remains? Anything?

[Marcus Marulus]

It is commonly assumed that the Bosnian patareni/bogumili/krstjani built them, but that is controversial. As is controversial who the Bosnian bogumili were in the first place.

[Monolith]

Originally Posted by Marulus

It is commonly assumed that the Bosnian patareni/bogumili/krstjani built them, but that is controversial. As is controversial who the Bosnian bogumili were in the first place.

This doesn't have to be correct, but I consider them as Bosnia's natives(Illyrians) who assimilated into a Slavic speaking people. I remember a text from my high school history book, which stated that "stećci" are the tombstones of the Vlach shepherds. What about that?
Is it true that the Avars brought the Slavs to Bosnia, prior to the arrival of both Croats and Serbs to the Balkans?
I've noticed that some Bosniaks tend to point at that, as their "evidence" that they're not related to either Croats or Serbs.

[Marcus Marulus]

Originally Posted by Monolith

This doesn't have to be correct, but I consider them as Bosnia's natives(Illyrians) who assimilated into a Slavic speaking people.

First time I hear such theory.

Originally Posted by Monolith

I remember a text from my high school history book, which stated that "stećci" are the tombstones of the Vlach shepherds. What about that?

First time to hear that too. Vlachs spoke a Romanian dialect.

Originally Posted by Monolith

Is it true that the Avars brought the Slavs to Bosnia, prior to the arrival of both Croats and Serbs to the Balkans?

The mainstream history assumes that Avars brought Slavs to Dalmatia (in the ancient Roman sense of the word, not in present-day territorial extension of the term) and later Croats came, following the invitation of the Byzantine emperor Heraclius, subdued the area and gave to it their name.

Originally Posted by Monolith

I've noticed that some Bosniaks tend to point at that, as their "evidence" that they're not related to either Croats or Serbs.

Mustafa Imamović?

[Aramis]

Originally Posted by Marulus

It is commonly assumed that the Bosnian patareni/bogumili/krstjani built them, but that is controversial. As is controversial who the Bosnian bogumili were in the first place.

I've read in a book that the Crkva Bosanska was just a simple christian church. But due to the mountainous isolation of the Bosnian population (including the clergy therefor) the church had some non-christian elements, but nothing really heretic about it. The ecclesiology was different from other churches, not the christology.

The name bogumili, to describe Bosnians with their slightly different religious practices, has been used just one time, in one source. A biography about Stefan Lazarević, wrote by the bulgarian writer Constantine of Kostenets. He wrote about the folk who lived around the Drina, particulary Srebrenica, and he mention that there were Catholics, Orthodox, and a third group whom he called Bogumili. And if you aks me, the only reason for that is his lack of knowledge about the native population. The only 'heretics' he knew were the bogumili, so he identified the Bosnians with them.

Mustafa Imamović?

He is nothing compared to Muhamed Filipović and his nonsense.

Originally Posted by Monolith

What is known about the people buried underneath them? Are there any skeletal remains? Anything?

I've read somewhere that the skeletal remains found under the stećci were all (or most of them) large. The people have been over 2 m tall. Same goes for the remains of king Tvrtko Kotromanić.

The same I've read for some medival graves found in Serbia.

[Monolith]

Originally Posted by Marulus

First time I hear such theory.
First time to hear that too. Vlachs spoke a Romanian dialect.

What is your impression?

Originally Posted by Vincent

I've read somewhere that the skeletal remains found under the stećci were all (or most of them) large. The people have been over 2 m tall. Same goes for the remains of king Tvrtko Kotromanić.

I believe that would just confirm that they were paleobalkanic natives of the area.

[Aramis]

Originally Posted by Monolith

What is your impression?

I believe that would just confirm that they were paleobalkanic natives of the area.

What I'm interested in is... why the heck are we so small now?

[Marcus Marulus]

Originally Posted by Monolith

What is your impression?

In lack of more research - carried out either by myself (on secondary sources) or by others - I tend to accept the traditional view that they were tombstones of the Bosnian krstjani.

But who knows...

[Monolith]

Originally Posted by Vincent

What I'm interested in is... why the heck are we so small now?

You mean "small", like "highest nations on Earth"?

[Aramis]

Originally Posted by Monolith

You mean "small", like "highest nations on Earth"?

I mean small like... "my ancestors 500 years ago were over 2 m tall"

What caused us to shirnk?

[Monolith]

Originally Posted by Vincent

I mean small like... "my ancestors 500 years ago were over 2 m tall"

What caused us to shirnk?

Way of life maybe? Who knows... It would be really interesting to examine their remains, and gather some anthropological and genetic data.

[Marcus Marulus]

Originally Posted by Vincent

I mean small like... "my ancestors 500 years ago were over 2 m tall"

What caused us to shirnk?

Who shrunk? You mean just Bosnians?

[Aramis]

Originally Posted by Marulus

Who shrunk? You mean just Bosnians?

Croatians, Bosnians and Serbians. Others also maybe, but I don't have the date.

[Marcus Marulus]

I didn't shrink too much.