What is Macedonia and who are Macedonians?

[agamemnon]

Some of our help to the Fyromians :-[ ΓΕÎ?ΙΚΟ ΕÎ*ΙΤΕΛΕΙΟ ΕΘÎ?ΙΚΗΣ ΑΜΥÎ?ΑΣ ]-

[The Duke]

Originally Posted by agamemnon

Some of our help to the Fyromians :-[ ΓΕÎ?ΙΚΟ ΕÎ*ΙΤΕΛΕΙΟ ΕΘÎ?ΙΚΗΣ ΑΜΥÎ?ΑΣ ]-

thanx for the "help".
dont hep us again please

[Hegumen]

Originally Posted by The Duke

thanx for the "help".
dont hep us again please

Considering all the political BS between Macedonia and our neighbor, I think this was a huge gesture.

Anyway, we should work towards proper diplomatic relations, not squabbling over the most trivial of things.

[NatVox]

Originally Posted by Hegumen

Considering all the political BS between Macedonia and our neighbor, I think this was a huge gesture.

And it is honest of you to admit it as such.

Looking at both your and The Duke's profiles and comparing them, might help explain the difference.

[agamemnon]

I agree with Hegumen.

Originally Posted by Hegumen

Considering all the political BS between Macedonia and our neighbor, I think this was a huge gesture.

Anyway, we should work towards proper diplomatic relations, not squabbling over the most trivial of things.

[The Duke]

We can be good neighbours. First our southern naighbours should accept our name

[Crvena zvezda]

Who are the Macedonians?

Mainly slavic ethnic/national group inhabiting a wide area that partially includes a small portion of Macedon. The population consists of Bulgarian/Serbian/Greek/Vlach elements. Some irredentists in the population believe they are descendants of the ancient Macedons. Also, probably one of the last nations to form in Europe -- some documents form the 19th century tend to indicate that they had no strong sense of national identity or affiliation to neighbouring states thus creating the perfect situation for the creation of a "new nation" and the nationality disputes of today.

The reason I say Greek elements is because part of FYROM is in ancient Macedon. But not only that I am pretty sure that Greek merchants were present in Macedonia (in Belgrade in the 17th century they constiuted over 1/5th of the population -- upto 20,000 people). Not only that but I've heard Greek nationalists speak of orphaned children from the civil war being sent to FYROM as the communists were defeated.

[Monolith]

Originally Posted by Crvena zvezda

Who are the Macedonians?

Mainly slavic ethnic/national group inhabiting a wide area that partially includes a small portion of Macedon. The population consists of Bulgarian/Serbian/Greek/Vlach elements. Some irredentists in the population believe they are descendants of the ancient Macedons. Also, probably one of the last nations to form in Europe -- some documents form the 19th century tend to indicate that they had no strong sense of national identity or affiliation to neighbouring states thus creating the perfect situation for the creation of a "new nation" and the nationality disputes of today.

Can you present solid evidence that Slavic tribes that came to Macedonia in the early 7th century were of Serb origin? Please elaborate.

[Crvena zvezda]

Originally Posted by Monolith

Can you present solid evidence that Slavic tribes that came to Macedonia in the early 7th century were of Serb origin? Please elaborate.

I never claimed those who went their in the 7th century were Serb. Serbs moved to Macedonia, the numbers were less numerous then their were Bulgars and it occured much later after the 1000's. I never claimed that Serbs were present their in the 7th century.

[Monolith]

Originally Posted by Crvena zvezda

I never claimed those who went their in the 7th century were Serb. Serbs moved to Macedonia, the numbers were less numerous then their were Bulgars and it occured much later after the 1000's. I never claimed that Serbs were present their in the 7th century.

You do know who Bulgarians were, and what ethnic parts combined in order to form their substratum?

[Hegumen]

Originally Posted by Crvena zvezda

Not only that but I've heard Greek nationalists speak of orphaned children from the civil war being sent to FYROM as the communists were defeated.

This is what happened to my grandmother. She was one of those refugees, first sent to Romania and then Czechoslovakia, and then finally to Socialist Macedonia.

I know Wikipedia is crap but this pretty much sums it up...

The exodus of ethnic Macedonians from Greece

The government forces destroyed every village that was on their way, and expelled the civilian population. Leaving as a result of force or on their own accord (in order to escape repression and retaliation), 50,000 people left Greece together with the retreating DSE forces. All of them were sent to Eastern Bloc countries. It was not until the 1970s that some of them were allowed to come to the Socialist Republic of Macedonia. In the 1980s, the Greek parliament adopted the law of national reconciliation which allowed DSE members "of Greek origin" to repatriate to Greece, where they were given land. Ethnic Macedonian DSE remembers remained excluded from the terms of this legislation.

[source]

[agamemnon]

Take a loom at this: ÂïõëãáñéêÜ áíèñþðéíá äéêáéþìáôá óôçí Ìáêåäïíßá - Åðßóçìç Éóôïóåëßäá- Bulgarian human rights in Macedonia -* Ç Âïõëãáñßá åßíáé ç ìïíáäéêÞ ÷þñá óôïí êüóìï ðïõ óõíïñåýåé ìå ôïí åáõôü ôçò, ôçí Ìáêåäïíßá

It is only in Greek but you will gat an idea of what is all about

[The Duke]

We are just Macedonians nothing less nothing more

[Crvena zvezda]

Originally Posted by The Duke

We are just Macedonians nothing less nothing more

your people partially inhabiting what was ancient Macedon. You do not have any large connection to the ancient Macedonians -- besides that you are present in a small section of ancient Macedon.

[tankistabg]

Fyromians are clearly of bulgarian origin. Here is an ethnic map from 20th century


Then, their language is clearly a bulgarian dialect, and that is recognized even today:


then if we take a look back to the ottoman Archives, we will see that in 1911 there is not even one "macedonian" but onlq bulgarians/greeks/turks/albanians in macedonia:




If we look back at the history we will see that in the middle ages today FYROM was called "theme Bulgaria"



Even more, the Bitola Inscription of Ivan Vladislav clearly states that he is a bulgarian:



and something more recent:
The bulgarian exarchate:




Macedonia during WW2 was simply Bulgaria:




and a video showing the Liberation of Macedonia:

+ YouTube Video

[The Duke]

Stop spaming tankistabg, there is no bulgarians in Republic of Macedonia

[tankistabg]

Originally Posted by The Duke

Stop spaming tankistabg, there is no bulgarians in Republic of Macedonia

this is not spam mate. And yes - there ARE bulgarians in the Republic of Macedonia.


I have always been part of the Macedonian Liberation Movement but I am a son of the Bulgarian people, just as the Slavs of Macedonia have been Bulgarians for a thousand years.

Ivan Mihailov

[Monolith]

Well, if they ever regarded themselves as Bulgarians, today they don't feel Bulgarian. I don't see the problem..