The ancient Balkan words - BEAR, BOW, OAK

[Levin]

Originally Posted by kestutisturbo

ORIGIN: Праслав. *medve^dь (первонач. "поедатель меда", от ме'д и *e^d-)

'Pojedatelj meda'... Very interesting.

Med-jed (from jesti, jedem - to eat) could be an explanation for hyper-jotted form MEĐED.

Btw., some notes for Serbian latinic script: Š and Ž are SH and ZH (Ш and Ж); Ć and Č are soft and hard CH (Ч), often undistinguishable to foreign ear (compared to Russian, maybe Ч and ЧЬ); Đ is a soft DŽ (ДЖ) and J is "consonanted I" (Й). Modern Serbian ortography is phonetic, so Russian естество, ёж, ёлка are in Serbian jestestvo, jež, jelka.

So far, I've heard explanations for MEDVĚD being 'the one that knows where honey is' or 'honey-knower'.

[kestutisturbo]

Originally Posted by Levin

'Pojedatelj meda'... Very interesting.

Med-jed (from jesti, jedem - to eat) could be an explanation for hyper-jotted form MEĐED.

Btw., some notes for Serbian latinic script: Š and Ž are SH and ZH (Ш and Ж); Ć and Č are soft and hard CH (Ч), often undistinguishable to foreign ear (compared to Russian, maybe Ч and ЧЬ); Đ is a soft DŽ (ДЖ) and J is "consonanted I" (Й). Modern Serbian ortography is phonetic, so Russian естество, ёж, ёлка are in Serbian jestestvo, jež, jelka.

So far, I've heard explanations for MEDVĚD being 'the one that knows where honey is' or 'honey-knower'.

In Lithuanian we have the same - Š and Ž are SH and ZH (Ш and Ж); but there is no Ć and only Č is hard CH (Ч)!

So we have to possibilities - 'honey-eater' and 'honey-knower'

Which one is true? I can't to denye linguistic speculations but 'honey-knower' is possible too.

Scientists say about BEAR

Common IE *

rkþo-s ‘bear’ (cp. Aind. kṣas, Lat. ursus, Grk. árktos etc.)
FIRST ATTESTATIONS OF BEAR CULTIN UPPER PALEOLITHIC
The different European names of the ‘bear’ are typical noa names, replacing the
tabooed one, and must thus belong to Upper Paleolithic:
CELTIC

‘good calf’:
GERMANIC

‘brown’:
BALTIC

probably
‘hairy’:
SLAVIC

‘honey eater’:
OIr.

mathgamain,
Ir. mathghamhain

(from

maith

‘good’ and

ghamain

‘calf’)
OIcel. bjorn,
Dan. bjørn,
Swed. bjorn,
Engl. bear,
Germ. bär,
Du. beer,
etc.
Lith. lokys,
Latv. lacis,
OPruss.

clokis

OSlav. Cr., Serb.

medvjed

, Cz.,
Slovn. medved,
Pol. niedźwiedź,
Ru. medved’,

Ukr. medvid

My opinion that lithuanian Lokys was created having understanding and saying that this animalis like the dangerous object which must be attcked using the bow - lankas.

I'we seen some balkan 'dlak' or 'tlak' - the fur and I suppose that it was created using delat (otdelat shkuru) ot Lokys)

I see the same idea in German Bear and Bow little similarity.

The most interesting for me is scandinavian mythological Lokki

[Hrvoje]

So, when do we start fighting and insulting each others mother?

[Monolith]

Originally Posted by Hrvoje

So, when do we start fighting and insulting each others mother?

Never, we're civilized people!

Yeah right...

Balkanoids:













Bah! Savages, I tell you!

[kestutisturbo]

Now about self identification.



How do You say in Balkan languages - HUMAN and MAN(male), MAN(female)?


Slovenian:

Man- človek
Man (male) - moški (Bardyllis)
Man (female) -

Croatian:

Man- čovjek
Man (male) - muškarac (Bardyllis)
Man (female) -

Serbian: -------- Bulgarian:

Man- čovek
Man (male) - muškarac (Bardyllis)
Man (female) -

Serbian:
----------

Man-
Man (male) -
Man (female) -


Albanian:
MAN- njeri
Man (male) - burrë
Man (female) - grua

English-Albanian and Albanian-English dictionary / Fjalor anglisht-shqip dhe shqip anglisht An English - Albanian, Albanian - English Online Dictionary.
(Bardyllis)


Montenegrin

Man-
Man (male) -
Man (female) -

Macedonian

man- čovek
Man (male) - maz(z as in Jacques Chirac---i dont know how to add apostrophes and things) (Dime)

Man (female) -


In Greek(new) :

MAN - Andros.
Man (male) -
Man (female) -
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks to all.

Kest

P.S.

Lithuanian(supposed to be very conservative and archaic indoeuropean language)

Man - Žmogus
Man (male) - vyras
Man (female) - moteris

Russian

Man- chieloviek (человек)
Man (male) - muzcina (мужчина)
Man (female) - zenscina (женщина)

Finnish
Man- Mies
Man (male) -
Man (female) -

[Monolith]

Croatian
man=čovjek
man(male)=muškarac
female=žena

Serbian
man=čovek
man(male)=muškarac
female=žena

Slovenian
man=človek
man(male)=moški
female=ženska

[Heretik]

Finally an interesting thread here!!!
I'm impressed...

[kestutisturbo]

Thanks. How is wife then? In russian - zena - wife and women - zenshchina

[Heretik]

Both are zena... In croatian. Wife might be - supruga also. But that's the formal version.

[kestutisturbo]

Now about self identification.



How do You say in Balkan languages - HUMAN and MAN(male), MAN(female)?


Slovenian:

Man- človek
Man (male) - moški
Man (female) - ženska (Bardyllis)


Croatian:

Man- čovjek
Man (male) - muškarac
Man (female) - žena (Bardyllis)


Serbian: -------- Bulgarian:

Man- čovek
Man (male) - muškarac
Man (female) - žena (Bardyllis)


Serbian:
----------

Man-
Man (male) -
Man (female) -


Albanian:
MAN- njeri
Man (male) - burrë
Man (female) - grua

English-Albanian and Albanian-English dictionary / Fjalor anglisht-shqip dhe shqip anglisht An English - Albanian, Albanian - English Online Dictionary.
(Bardyllis)


Montenegrin

Man-
Man (male) -
Man (female) -

Macedonian

man- čovek
Man (male) - maz(z as in Jacques Chirac---i dont know how to add apostrophes and things) (Dime)

Man (female) -


In Greek(new) :

MAN - Andros.
Man (male) -
Man (female) -
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks to all.

Kest

P.S.

Lithuanian(supposed to be very conservative and archaic indoeuropean language)

Man - Žmogus
Man (male) - vyras
Man (female) - moteris

Russian

Man- chieloviek (человек)
Man (male) - muzcina (мужчина)
Man (female) - zenscina (женщина)

Finnish
Man- Mies
Man (male) -
Man (female) -

[kestutisturbo]

After about self identification we can research grandfather, grandmother, baby, kid, boy, girl and 'TRIBE' and there is some interesting proposal by Levin - about hunting time animal and birds names.

By the way, here are some more hunter's terms:

Wolf: VUK (from Slavonic v'lk) and KURJAK (probably a word of non-Slavic origin)
Deer: JELEN, female: KOŠUTA, offspring: TELE, or incorrectly 'LANE' (see next)
Roe-Deer: SRNDAĆ, female: SRNA, offspring: LANE
Rabbit: ZEC
Fox: LISICA (f.), male: LISAC
Eagle: ORAO
Falcon: SOKO
Hawk: JASTREB
Dog: PAS, KER, HRT (hunting dog)
Horse: KONJ
Arrow: STRĚLA
etc.

I would like to add fish, harpoo, net too.

Go forward UNITED INVESTIGATORS FORCES !

Here is some template -

How do You say in Balkan languages - ?


Slovenian:



Croatian:


Serbian: -------- Bulgarian:






Albanian:




Montenegrin


Macedonian



Greek(new) :

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks to all.

Kest

P.S.

Lithuanian(supposed to be very conservative and archaic indoeuropean language)


Russian



Finnish

[Levin]

I'd say that in all Slavic languages terms for man and woman are derived from MUŽ and ŽENA.

Serbian:

MUŽ archaic and poetic for man, but normally husband; MUŠKARAC (muž + karac) male human being; MUŠKO adv. male, also as a noun
ŽENA woman, also spouse; ŽENSKO adv. female, also as a noun
ČOVĚK (both čovek and čovjek) man; plural LJUDI (? similar to German 'Leute'). ČOVEK is from Slavonic Č'LOVĚK
DĚVA maiden, virgin; DĚVOJKA, DĚVOJČICA (diminutive of děvojka) girl; also MOMA, mome, CURA etc.
DĚČAK, MOMAK boy, young man
DĚTE child
BEBA baby

After about self identification we can research grandfather, grandmother, baby, kid, boy, girl and 'TRIBE' and there is some interesting proposal by Levin - about hunting time animal and birds names.

family: PORODICA (from ROD, RODITI - to give birth), FAMILIJA and OBITELJ (obsolete; from OBITOVATI - to live /together/; used to describe monastery 'families' of monks)

tribe: PLEME

father: OTAC (?); nicknames: TATA, TALE, TAJO, ĆAĆA, ĆALE, BÁBO, BÁBA. Supposedly there was an older form PITAR (PITATI, to feed /Slavonic/) meaning 'feeder', which connects to Latin PATER and Germanic VATER/FATHER

mother: MATER (never used to address her like that), MATERA; nicknames: MAJKA ('official'), MAMA, MAJA, MATI (less formal)

brother: BRAT

sister: SESTRA

grandfather: DĚD; DEDA, DIDA, DEDO, ĐED... also used for any old man

grandmother: BABA; BAJKA, BAKA - also used for any old woman

son: SIN

daughter: corrupted from Slavonic D'ŠTER (never in use) KĆER, KĆERKA, ĆERKA, ŠĆER (local)

And many other surprisingly specific words for certain relatives:

uncle (mother's brother): UJAK; his wife is UJNA. You are to him NETIJAK or NEĆAK (compare: Nephew)
uncle (father's brother): STRIC; his wife is STRINA. You are to him SINOVAC
aunt: TETKA; her husband TETAK or TEČA. You are to her SESTRIĆ or BRATIĆ (depends on whether you are her sister's or her brother's son)
husband: MUŽ, SUPRUG; to his wife's relatives, he is ZET
wife: ŽENA, SUPRUGA; to her husband relatives, she is SNAŠA or SNAJKA

Cousins (children of aunts and uncles) are considered 'second' brothers and sisters, and are called brat and sestra, as one's own siblings.

This one is interesting:
SVASTIKA: wife's sister. How is this related to symbol svastika? Simply through Sanskrit SVAST meaning happiness. SVAST is the root of both SESTRA and SVASTIKA. Originally, it is I-E 'SVASTRA', derived to Schwester in German and sister in English, in Serbian it was reduced to sestra, but in svastika the root remained unchanged, due to easier pronunciation and lack of simplification possibilities.

parents-in-law (to husband): TAST and TAŠTA, or PUNAC and PUNICA (local and obsolete)
parents-in-law (to wife): SVEKAR and SVEKRVA
wife's brother: ŠURAK
wife's sister: SVASTIKA
husband's brother: DĚVER
husband's sister: ZAOVA

wifes of two brothers are to each other: JETRVA
husbands of two sisters are to each other: PAŠENOG

great-grandfather/mother: PRA-DĚD/BABA
great-great-grandfather/mother: ČUKUN-DĚD/BABA

Interesting.

[kestutisturbo]

Originally Posted by Levin

I'd say that in all Slavic languages terms for man and woman are derived from MUŽ and ŽENA.
..........

Interesting.

Thanks Konstantin Dimitrijevich, but I would like to devote this forum for hunting and fishing lexicon, and I'm going to start the new thread for the MAN, TRIBE...studies!

[kestutisturbo]

By the way, here are some more hunter's terms (Levin say):

I would like to add fish, harpoo, net too.

Go forward UNITED INVESTIGATORS FORCES !



How do You say in Balkan languages - ?


Slovenian:



Croatian:


Serbian: -------- Bulgarian:

Wolf: VUK (from Slavonic v'lk) and KURJAK (probably a word of non-Slavic origin)
Deer: JELEN, female: KOŠUTA, offspring: TELE, or incorrectly 'LANE' (see next)
Roe-Deer: SRNDAĆ, female: SRNA, offspring: LANE
Rabbit: ZEC
Fox: LISICA (f.), male: LISAC
Eagle: ORAO
Falcon: SOKO
Hawk: JASTREB
Dog: PAS, KER, HRT (hunting dog)
Horse: KONJ
Arrow: STRĚLA

Fish:
Harpoo:
Net(fishing):





Albanian:




Montenegrin


Macedonian



Greek(new) :

Wolf: likos
Deer: elafi, (northern)tarandos female: offspring:
Roe-Deer: female: offspring:
Elk: alke
Rabbit (hair): lagos
Fox: (f.) alepu male: alepu
Eagle: aetos
Falcon: geraki
Hawk:
Dog: skilos
Horse: hippos, alogos
Arrow: velos

Fish: psiari
Harpoo:
Net: teneto(old), set- dixti

Greek (old)

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks to all.

Kest

P.S.

Lithuanian(supposed to be very conservative and archaic indoeuropean language)

Wolf: vilkas
Deer: elnias, female: elnė, offspring: elniukai
Roe-Deer: stirninas , female: stirna , offspring: stirniukai
Elk: briedis
Rabbit (hair): kiškis
Fox: lapė
Eagle: erelis
Falcon: sakalas
Hawk: vanagas
Dog: šuo
Horse: ašva(very old one), arklys (for farming), žirgas (for fighting)
Arrow: strėlė

Fish:žuvis
Harpoo: akstis, žeberklas
Net:tinklas

Russian


Wolf: volk
Deer: olen, female: olen , offspring: olenionok
Roe-Deer: female: kosulia offspring:
Elk: Los
Rabbit (hair): zajac
Fox: (f.) lisa, male: lisica
Eagle: oriol
Falcon: sokol
Hawk: jastreb
Dog: sobaka
Horse: kon, lošad
Arrow: striela

Fish: ryba
Harpoo: bagor
Net: teneto(old), set


Finnish


Wolf: susi
Deer: peura female: olen , offspring: olenionok
Roe-Deer: : offspring:
Elk: hirvi
Rabbit (hair): janis
Fox: (f.) kettu male:
Eagle: kotka
Falcon:
Hawk: haukka
Dog: koira
Horse: hevonen
Arrow: nuoli

Fish: kala
Harpoo: harppu, attrain(?)
Net: kalaverko

[dime]

Wolf: Volk
Deer: ELEN,
Roe-Deer: SRNA
Rabbit: Zajak
Fox: LISICA
Eagle: OREL
Falcon: SOKOL
Hawk: JASTREB
Dog: PES, KUCHE
Horse: KONJ
Arrow: STRĚLA

Fish: riba(singular) ribi(plural)
Harpoo: harpun
Net(fishing):MREŽA

[Monolith]

Wolf: Vuk
Deer: Jelen
Roe-Deer: Srna
Rabbit: Zec
Fox: Lisica
Eagle: Orao
Falcon: Sokol
Hawk: Jastreb
Dog: Pas
Horse: Konj
Arrow: Strijela

Fish: riba(singular) ribe(plural)
Harpoo: harpun
Net(fishing):mreža