Arijevske pod-rase: Rasprostranjenost i karakteristike

[Zrinski]

Originally Posted by Vožd

That test a while back was done with Croats and Serbs from Bosnia, no?

It included samples from all ethnicites as far as I know. It also showed that Croats have the highest percentage of I haplotype of them all, about 75% which is higher than Croatia - about50%. Muslims had about 45-55% of I haplotype while Serbs were around 35%.

@Awar I wouldn't be surprised, but I still except deviation. I believe Serbs will be much more similar to Bulgarians and Macedonians while Montenegrins I believe will be more similar to Dalmatians(Southern Croats), Albanians and Greeks.

We have example from Slovenes who are much more similar to Slovaks and even Russians then to Croats.

[Awar]

I think it depends on the region.

You can see clear PHENOTYPE differences between Dalmatians and Slavonians, Western Serbs and Southeastern Serbs, Serbs from Vojvodina and those from Kosovo, Croats from Zagreb and Croats from Bosnia. I think similar differences and similarities will appear with genotype.

You know, the Montenegrins are probably closer to Dalmatians than to eastern Serbs.
The eastern Serbs are closer to Western Bulgarians, the northeastern Bulgarians are closer to Romanians, the Serbs from Vojvodina to Slavonian Croats etc. etc.

[Nadvojvoda Janez Kranjski]

[Nadvojvoda Janez Kranjski]

Originally Posted by Zrinski

It included samples from all ethnicites as far as I know. It also showed that Croats have the highest percentage of I haplotype of them all, about 75% which is higher than Croatia - about50%. Muslims had about 45-55% of I haplotype while Serbs were around 35%.

I'd like to see that study. The figures don't match with those that I read.

We have example from Slovenes who are much more similar to Slovaks and even Russians then to Croats.

Well, not really. I'd refrain from jumping to conclusions from studies with such small sample sizes. One study showed that Slovenes have 27% (Rosser et al, 70 individuals) of I and another showed we have 37% (Rootsi et al, 55 individuals) - 10.9% of I1a* and 20% of I1b*, etc.

[Zrinski]

Originally Posted by Janez

Hmm...where is Croatia in this study?

btw. I recognize some of the haplotypes here.
HG1 is I believe same as R1a which is making 11%
HG2 is I haplotype(probably) I1b and it's making 49%
HG3 is R1b which makes about 16%
HG9 seems to be J haplotype and it's 8%

I am not able to recognize HG12, HG26 and HG21.

Did I get it right? Is HG21 maybe J haplotye? it makes 13%.

Edit: I found this site ==> http://home.comcast.net/~rutledgedna/glossary.html

It says that HG1 is R1b so in some familiar therms this would be the western european haplotype or as I like to call it - Celto-Germanic
HG3 would be "Balto-Slavic" R1a haplotype.

Hmmm....can someone find some good site that has the old DNA system and a new one.

[Zrinski]

Originally Posted by Janez

I'd like to see that study. The figures don't match with those that I read.

I am quoting Ross from Skadi by memory. I don't know the excat figures but I know that West and Central Ukrainians are said to be strangely different from other West and East Slavs and most similar to South Slavs namely Croats and Bosnians.
At the same time he also posted that Slovenes are also different from their neighbours and more similar to Czechs and Slovaks and Russians.

Well, not really. I'd refrain from jumping to conclusions from studies with such small sample sizes. One study showed that Slovenes have 27% (Rosser et al, 70 individuals) of I and another showed we have 37% (Rootsi et al, 55 individuals) - 10.9% of I1a* and 20% of I1b*, etc.

Hmmm...yes. But I am not concluding anything. I am stating what some studies said.

[Awar]

Ahh... dammit... I can't find the conversion table again!

[Nadvojvoda Janez Kranjski]

HG1= R1b
HG2= I (with all subhaplogroups)
HG3= R1a

I don't know the others by heart. It's hard to memorise 3 different nomenclatures.

There have been other studies on Croats.

[Awar]

btw. The Haplogroup I is closely related to Neolithic hg's ( I1b to be precise )

[Nadvojvoda Janez Kranjski]

Originally Posted by Janez

HG1= R1b
HG2= I (with all subhaplogroups)
HG3= R1a

I don't know the others by heart. It's hard to memorise 3 different nomenclatures.

There have been other studies on Croats.

Ah, here it it. The original page is defunct now.

http://www.townsendsociety.org/DNAPr...estResults.htm

[Awar]

That's it!

[Zrinski]

Originally Posted by Janez

HG1= R1b
HG2= I (with all subhaplogroups)
HG3= R1a

I don't know the others by heart. It's hard to memorise 3 different nomenclatures.

I thought so.
It's really hard to remember all three nomenclatures...I agree. Hope they don't decide to change it again.

There have been other studies on Croats.

I know. I think I have them most on my PC.

[Zrinski]

Originally Posted by Janez

Ah, here it it. The original page is defunct now.

http://www.townsendsociety.org/DNAPr...estResults.htm

Thanks. Much appreciated.

[Nadvojvoda Janez Kranjski]

Originally Posted by Zrinski

Thanks. Much appreciated.

You're very welcome.

[Pandur]

Originally Posted by Vožd

@zvaci

Why western, or southern Balkans(you said it not me ) Why not eastern Balkans or further north?

Ask international institutions, they classified Croatia, Bosnia and Serbia as 'Western Balkans". I personally SPIT on this foreign classification, much like I spit on any other similar classification ignoring the ethnic differences.

I sacrifice a cow each day to Veles hoping that we are not related genetically )

I'm glad you are honest about it, and as you can see, the feelings are mutual. Yet I hope you realize this possible discovery would contradict Greater-Serbian ideology claiming Štokavian Croats are 'Catholic Serbs'.

IMHO this is the one of the possible reasons we haven't received Serbian data yet.

I know physical anthropology and genetics, something that has never interested me anyway so shoot me , aren't the same...

You're not interested to know about your ancestry...thats odd. Perhaps because you questione it?

but according to Deniker,Serbians are the same sub racial types as Western Ukrainians so that's good enough in my books.

Phenotype and ancestry are two different matters. In respect to Croatian Y chromosome West Ukrainians are close to Croatians, and this means we share the similar ancestry. Serbs shall have to prove their ancestry before claiming relation to anybody.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/threa...&lp=1089120001
http://www.pran.ru/pdf/gen/07.pdf

Western Ukrainians


According to recent studies, Eastern Ukrainians cluster together with Southern Great Russians and are not related at all to Western and Central Ukrainians.

Western Ukrainians are not related to Northern Slavs (Russians, Poles and Byelorussians), but show close genetical ties with Bosnians and Croats.

Central Ukrainians are similar with Western Ukrainians but have strong Turkic/Asiatic admixture.

[Pandur]

[Vojvoda]

Originally Posted by Pandur

You're not interested to know about your ancestry...thats odd. Perhaps because you questione it?

I know my personal ancestry so I have no reason to question it or to go by genetic data to find out what I am like some folks do