Irredentism in the Balkans

[Banat]

Originally Posted by Zrinski

In other words except propaganda you have no other arguments?

You want other arguments for a census result than the result itself??? If you do, I admit I don't have any.

I've looked at census data from Serbian in 1991 and 2002. I've read oerview of all population census in Serbia from the begining and none of them ever mentioned anything like "Catholic Serbs".

I wonder why those who never mentioned it done that? Probably because they either didn't find it worth mentioning, or it didn't fit their ideology, which was that there couldn't be any other Serbian speaking Roman-Catholics but Croats. And probably because those who did notice that, used it as an argument against Croatian chauvinists, and hence became labeled as non-objective by those same Croats.

The only time I've read it mentioned is in either chauvinistic propaganda which claims "Croats are Catholic Serbs" or historic reviews from days gone past hundreds of years ago.

There is no claim that "Croats are Catholic Serbs". There are only ethnocidal claims from numerous Croatian circles that not only Roman-Catholic Serbs were never Serbs, but that they were nothing but Croats also.

'Nacertanije' perhpas? 'Serbs all and everywhere'? Etc...

And this is why I gave you a short answers only without going deeper into the matter. If you want to have a lowbrow discussion over this issue, or just mock around instead of having a serious approach - have it with someone else but me.

[Zrinski]

Originally Posted by Banat

You want other arguments for a census result than the result itself??? If you do, I admit I don't have any.

You make it sound like the population census actually proves your point not the other way around...

I wonder why those who never mentioned it done that? Probably because they either didn't find it worth mentioning, or it didn't fit their ideology, which was that there couldn't be any other Serbian speaking Roman-Catholics but Croats. And probably because those who did notice that, used it as an argument against Croatian chauvinists, and hence became labeled as non-objective by those same Croats.

Or probably that such a thing does not exists.

There is no claim that "Croats are Catholic Serbs". There are only ethnocidal claims from numerous Croatian circles that not only Roman-Catholic Serbs were never Serbs, but that they were nothing but Croats also.

Not really. No one is denying that there were some serbs of catholic faith some long time ago, but in modern times there is no such thing as "catholic serb". What serbian chauvinist claim is that Bunjevci are "catholic serbs" when they have always delcared themselves as Croats and definately as non-serbs.

And this is why I gave you a short answers only without going deeper into the matter. If you want to have a lowbrow discussion over this issue, or just mock around instead of having a serious approach - have it with someone else but me.

Yeah right...

[Hrvoje]

Originally Posted by Slavni

I'll not.I just dont understand why they deny Serbian heritage,they should be proud for that.Bosnian muslims too.It's our shame to have brothers like some of them.

It is also shame that you suffer from heavy case of inferiority complex,
when you have to portray even your mortal enemies and their achievements as Serbian. Don't you have anything of value of your own?
Very sad for proud Serbian nationalist.

To get back on the topic, how about you present us some evidence
instead of mere inferiority complex wishes?

And we are not brothers.

[Slavni]

Originally Posted by Hrvoje

It is also shame that you suffer from heavy case of inferiority complex,
when you have to portray even your mortal enemies and their achievements as Serbian. Don't you have anything of value of your own?
Very sad for proud Serbian nationalist.

To get back on the topic, how about you present us some evidence
instead of mere inferiority complex wishes?

And we are not brothers.

Yes we are brothers,that's not something I'm proud of,but that's a fact.Muslims from Bosnia also deny Serbian Christian origin,but all they have to do is to make their own family-tree.It's not that easy with some Croats (from west Hercegovina) because there is a lot of common names for Serbs and Croats.Thats from West Hercegovina are today the most extreme Croats,they are not like old Croats from Zagorje.They are Croats and they don't have to demonstrate that to nobody,so they are peacefull nice people.

[Hrvoje]

Originally Posted by Slavni

Yes we are brothers,that's not something I'm proud of,but that's a fact..

No we are not, it is like you lost girlfriend and now whine about it endlessly,
get over it once and for all, we are not brothers.

Muslims from Bosnia also deny Serbian Christian origin,but all they have to do is to make their own family-tree.

No, Muslims of Bosnia are not of Serbian origin, they also have factual and identifiable ethnogenesis, separate from both Serbs and Croats.

they are not like old Croats from Zagorje.

This theory is to say the least, laughable, I have read it from Serbian
"historians" and others, it is sadly, quite accepted by Serbian nationalists,
this is why I rejected your "paper" on Dubrovnik on spot.
This ignorance on the matter is getting on my nerves.

The theory that only people that are true Croats are those from Zagorje
while others are presumably Croatizied Serbs doesn't stand.
The "great" historians are insisting on this pamphlet meanwhile
ignoring that first Croatian states emerged in area of Dalmatian hinterland and in parts of Herzegovina,
and that Croatian dukes and kings had their thrones in towns like Nin, Šibenik, Bijaći , Biograd, Klis ,Knin and Duvno.

If you ask me, medieval or "old" (as you say it) Croatian identity of people from Zagorje is more questionable.

[Slavni]

Originally Posted by Hrvoje

The "great" historians are insisting on this pamphlet meanwhile
ignoring that first Croatian states emerged in area of Dalmatian hinterland and in parts of Herzegovina,
and that Croatian dukes and kings had their thrones in towns like Nin, Šibenik, Bijaći , Biograd, Klis ,Knin and Duvno.

If you ask me, medieval or "old" (as you say it) Croatian identity of people from Zagorje is more questionable.

There always was 3 different lands-Croatia,Slavonia and Dalmatia.
Branimir Johnny Stulic ex-Yu rock legend describe his ,,Croatian'' origin.
His Serb ancestors lived in one village near Knin and moved to Nin in late IXX century.After that they became Catholics and Croats also.
That's just one sample of thousands.

[Zrinski]

Stulic is derranged idiot...you've really found whom you will give as an example...an ex drug addict

[Slavni]

Originally Posted by Zrinski

Stulic is derranged idiot...you've really found whom you will give as an example...an ex drug addict

Do you want more music or sport stars in Croatia who declares themselves as Croats,but who are Serbs?

[Hrvoje]

Originally Posted by Slavni

There always was 3 different lands-Croatia,Slavonia and Dalmatia.

No, this was not always , and even then it was triune Kingdom.

Branimir Johnny Stulic ex-Yu rock legend describe his ,,Croatian'' origin.

His Serb ancestors lived in one village near Knin and moved to Nin in late IXX century.After that they became Catholics and Croats also.

Please provide us evidence or sources on Branimir's alleged Serbian ancestry and origins.

That's just one sample of thousands.

Please give us just one example and evidence where individual considered him self as Serbian to one point and from that point on, as Catholic Croatian.

Do you want more music or sport stars in Croatia who declares themselves as Croats,but who are Serbs?

Yes and? I don't see the connection to our discussion.

[Zrinski]

Originally Posted by Slavni

Do you want more music or sport stars in Croatia who declares themselves as Croats,but who are Serbs?

I see that you are "inspired" by that "article" in serbian yellow press.

[Slavni]

It's nice that you read Serbian press,but in that article were not ''Croats'' as Drazen and Aco Petrovic,Miladin-Dado Prso,Arijan Komazec,Stojko Vrankovic, Danko Cvjeticanin,Goran Ivanisevic,Bosko Balaban...
Hrvoje, http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15367a.htm
(Serbian or Illyrian , Croatio , Dalmatian)
You can see that Croatian and Dalmatian are not same language,or you'll say that is Vatican propaganda against Croats?

[Zrinski]

Originally Posted by Slavni

It's nice that you read Serbian press,but in that article were not ''Croats'' as Drazen and Aco Petrovic,Miladin-Dado Prso,Arijan Komazec,Stojko Vrankovic, Danko Cvjeticanin,Goran Ivanisevic,Bosko Balaban...

I do not read Serbian press...our yellow press transfered this crap. I had a good laugh I must admit.

As for the names you have written I can only laugh. I think Drazen would turn in his grave if he knew you were claiming he is a Serb. He despised Serbs more than anything becuase of what you have done to Sibenik and Croatia. Goran Ivansievic even more...haha...Ivanisevic a Serb....

As for Prso I think his sentence: "Ja sam Hrvat a ostalo su gluposti"("I'm a Croat everything else is BS") says it all.

Cvjeticanin - Croat born in Belgrade, place of birth doesn't mean he is a Serb.
Stojko Vrankovic - has some minor serbian ancestry, he is a Croat and he is even a very strong nationalist...I don't you would want to be close to this giant when you tell him that he is a "serb".
Komazec...well his father was a Serb but he left when Arijan was 2 years old and he was raised by a man who he considers his father(a Croat) and he considers himself a Croat as well.

The only one you could make an argument is Bosko Balaban whos parents live in "RS" entity in Bosnia-Herzegovina.

Hrvoje, http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15367a.htm
(Serbian or Illyrian , Croatio , Dalmatian)
You can see that Croatian and Dalmatian are not same language,or you'll say that is Vatican propaganda against Croats?

Bwahaha...you've really found what will you quote. "Serbian or Illyrian"?!? Let me quote you a passage: "A Serbian, or Illyrian, version of the Bible was made by Kassich (1632)."

"Kassich" or Kašić is Bartol Kašić....Croatian linguist who has nothing to do with Serbs or Serbian language. He made a translation of the Bible to Croatian or lllyrian(as Croatian was often called...Serbian was very rarely called "Illyrian"). Serbian has nothing to do with it..
http://hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bartul_Ka%C5%A1i%C4%87

Your "source" is nothing but bs...as is whole "Catholic Encyclopedia".

[Slavni]

Father of Drazen & Aco Petrovic is Serb from Trebinje-Republic of Srpska,their mother Biserka is Croatian. Drazen was a great player,I admit.
I'm not proud for that guys Serb origins,a lot of them are Croat nationalists and consider themselves as Croats.They can declared as Eskimos or Sioux,I don't mind at all,that's their problem.
I don't want to discuss anymore about Serbs who call themselves Croats,but just deep think about that,you are a smart guy.
Nobody will provoke me to post about that here again.I'm away of
Irredentism in the Balkans.Bye Zrinski and Hrvoje,you can continue...

[Zrinski]

Originally Posted by Slavni

Father of Drazen & Aco Petrovic is Serb from Trebinje-Republic of Srpska,

No he is not a Serb. Also Trebinje is Herzegovina..."Republika Srpska" exists only for the last 10 years so he cannot be from "RS".

[Defensor Fidei]

Originally Posted by Slavni

There always was 3 different lands-Croatia,Slavonia and Dalmatia.
Branimir Johnny Stulic ex-Yu rock legend describe his ,,Croatian'' origin.
His Serb ancestors lived in one village near Knin and moved to Nin in late IXX century.After that they became Catholics and Croats also.
That's just one sample of thousands.

And what is the name of your country : Serbia and Montenegro and Kosovo and Vojvodina and Sandjak and Čačak - und so weiter

So what, your "greatest" nationalist Šešelj is Croat from Herzegovina. The leader of chetniks is Croat. Thats why he is doing so much trouble to servia.

[Defensor Fidei]

Originally Posted by Slavni

I don't want to discuss anymore about Serbs who call themselves Croats...

Because you and your family are Croats who call themselves servs.

[Routasydän]

After reading this thread, all I have to say is that you people, inhabitants of the Balkans, are utterly and completely FUBAR. Wow.