Premarital sex-- immoral?

[Gil]

Bianca: morality is shaped by your cultural setting, so morality is not absolute but rather relative, in the sense that your upbringing and the culture/civilization around your shapes your morality and gives you different standards. After all, it was immoral for a woman of the West to speak in the same terms as man, not many years ago....

[Bianca]

Originally Posted by Manji

Bianca: morality is shaped by your cultural setting, so morality is not absolute but rather relative, in the sense that your upbringing and the culture/civilization around your shapes your morality and gives you different standards.

Morality was alwyas one and the same since the beginning of human life on earth. It applies in the same manner for everyone, Maltese, Italians, Catholics and Muslims alike. It focuses on the good, bad, right and wrong.

After all, it was immoral for a woman of the West to speak in the same terms as man, not many years ago....

That was a custom, merely a manner...

[trinacria]

Morality is never absolute. It is always, always, always relative. What is acceptable in Maori culture might not be accepted to the French or the Chinese. See where I'm going with this?

In a serious relationship, premarital sexual relations are not wrong. However, if you're just adding notches to your bedpost, it's not too nice! Really shows a lack of respect for yourself and a serious lack of self control as well as concern for the person with whom you've slept. Oftentimes these people don't take others' emotions into consideration and it all becomes a big mess.

Moral of the story? Sex is okay in a commited, long term relationship.

Another question: are humans monogamous by nature?

[Awar]

Originally Posted by trinacria

Another question: are humans monogamous by nature?

I think it depends on the person. A regular alpha-male can hardly stay
monogamous, while someone lower on that ladder probably can.

Similar goes for women. In my own observation, I've noticed that women
have periods when this or that behaviour is apparent.
I've seen the most faithful and trustworthy women have periods of 'heat',
and I can't explain that with anything except biology.

Also, there are people who are conscious enough not to let
biology take over, but that's difficult to achieve.

[Phlegethon]

Originally Posted by trinacria

Another question: are humans monogamous by nature?

As we are not animals this is totally irrelevant. We have a conscience, so whatever role nature may have had is limited by that.

[Phlegethon]

Originally Posted by Awar

I think it depends on the person. A regular alpha-male can hardly stay
monogamous

I.e. male without conscience.

Originally Posted by Awar

Similar goes for women. In my own observation, I've noticed that women
have periods when this or that behaviour is apparent.
I've seen the most faithful and trustworthy women have periods of 'heat',
and I can't explain that with anything except biology.

Complete absence of conscience. Extremely prevalent among females.

[Ederico]

Ah I see, a Moral Objectivism versus Moral Relativism situation forming. As a Catholic I can only obviously favour the former as a question of Moral Philosophy.

I just wanted to point a flaw in some Relativist positions which I have encountered repeatedly. Often, the assertion that there is an encoded fundamental notion of morality within every human, which is far more restricted than Catholic Morality for example, is made. This statement is done when Moral Relativism is used to attack a Religion such as Catholicism which witholds a Moral Absolutist position.

Moral Relativism witholds many dangers by itself and far worse when combined with Individualism. Such a notion can potentially permit any sort of "morality" and is in reality the road towards amorality and immorality.

Moral Relativism is a recipe for chaos.

[Awar]

Originally Posted by Phlegethon

I.e. male without conscience.

i.e. born that way.

Conscience or no conscience among both men and women,
it's clear that social relations resemble those of baboons.
Or should I say, tend to go in that direction,
but are constrained by traditional society.

Complete absence of conscience. Extremely prevalent among females.

Yes, and that's one more reason to know what to rely on,
hard-coded behaviours you can rely on, learned things like conscience
and traditions you can't.

[Awar]

Originally Posted by Ederico Figallo

Moral Relativism is a recipe for chaos.

Not really, you can have people who believe in moral relativism,
but who uphold high standards of behaviour,
and you can also have people who believe in moral absolutes,
and behave destructive... and just feel guilt after comitting crimes etc.

Prisons are full of religious people, just like universities are full of atheists.

[Ederico]

Originally Posted by Awar

Not really, you can have people who believe in moral relativism,
but who uphold high standards of behaviour,
and you can also have people who believe in moral absolutes,
and behave destructive... and just feel guilt after comitting crimes etc.

Prisons are full of religious people, just like universities are full of atheists.

Moral Absolutism witholds that the Absolute Good is witheld in it and as such there cannot be a Moral Absolutist that does not "uphold high standards of behaviour" because that would be contrary to the Absolute Good witheld within Moral Absolutism.

The fundamental stumbling block for Moral Absolutism is the incability of most men to understand it accordingly and subsequently to act according to it. That however does not mean that Moral Absolutes do not exist, it is only a proof that man is weak and that that weakness is best expressed through Moral Relativism in the clash between Moral Absolutism and Moral Relativism.

[Bianca]

Originally Posted by Phlegethon

Complete absence of conscience. Extremely prevalent among females.

Women deprived of any conscience! That is not fair you male chauvinist p...

[Ederico]

Originally Posted by Bianca

Women deprived of any conscience! That is not fair you male chauvinist p...

Don't worry, you'll get used to our Phlegethon.

[Phlegethon]

Male chauvinist priest? Papist? Praeceptor? Possessor? Phlegethon?

Some call it chauvinism - I call it God-given order.

[Nerthus]

Originally Posted by Ederico Figallo

Don't worry, you'll get used to our Phlegethon.

You took the words right out of my mouth. You can either get used to Phlegethon or... get used to Phlegethon. Resistance is futile!

[Bianca]

Originally Posted by Phlegethon

Male chauvinist priest? Papist? Praeceptor? Possessor? Phlegethon?

Some call it chauvinism - I call it God-given order.

A venomous message LOL, may I examine your canines please

Pig... p for pig.

[Awar]

Originally Posted by Ederico Figallo

Moral Absolutism witholds that the Absolute Good is witheld in it and as such there cannot be a Moral Absolutist that does not "uphold high standards of behaviour" because that would be contrary to the Absolute Good witheld within Moral Absolutism.

The fundamental stumbling block for Moral Absolutism is the incability of most men to understand it accordingly and subsequently to act according to it. That however does not mean that Moral Absolutes do not exist, it is only a proof that man is weak and that that weakness is best expressed through Moral Relativism in the clash between Moral Absolutism and Moral Relativism.

Exactly, but, I'm more concerned on how it works in reality, rather than theory.

Moral absolutism looks good on paper, but doesn't quite work in reality.