Are monotheistic religions imperialistic?

[Savage]

Are monotheistic religions imperialistic?

Of course they are. Any religion with a mission command are. The great problem with these, are that they consider their single god as superior to other gods.

Of that comes, that only their religion are more "real", the others are "heathen" and superficial.

As history has shown, monotheistic religions have ruined any culture that came in their claws. The only thing that makes them stop, are that they are stopped by outer powers, as growing enlightment among common people. The problem with christianity in Norway are solving itself, by simply dying out, without being able to recruit new ressorceful servants and candidates.

It is not possible to make a clear distinction between monotheistic religions and politics, because for example the Church are extremly political, that is one thing.

More important and general, is that morals and laws are instituted according to the ruling religion. The power of, and the subtile influence of religion on politics are enormous.

Mostly subconscious, and or sneaked into any level and aspect of society. A giant brainwashing on several levels. They also steal our old traditions, fake them, and present them as their own.

The Juletides forexample, have never ever been established to celebrate a newborn jewish prophet, but been celebrated here up north for centenniums and milleniums before the fall of Jewrusalem. "Christmass" is a fake and theft of our Norse tradition, the Midwinterblot, or the Juletides. ( But for Gods sake, Merry Chrismas! )

Also USNegroes have got the same brilliant idea, copying the Juletides, or rather, copying the copy; "Chrismas", calling it "Kwanda"? or something, and the pimps and the whores are supposed to give each other gifts and come together and celebrate and eat at "Kwanda" (or whatever)

The same is the case with Islam, though it must be said that Islam has been much more eloquent in handling the cultures they overran. The cultures has to large degrees been axepted and adapted. The Sufi practices and deities did not have to suffer, as long as they in the outer claimed to be subordered Muhammed.

For the Zoroasts that option was and are not possible, and they are still persecuated by Islamich witchunters, I recognize their situation as principial similar to ours her up North. Not to mention the situation for pantheistic Sami spiritualism.

Animism and pantheism has for a good share been treated good by Islam.
Local mystical and magical systems and traditions has been given an outer layer of Islam, and also has Mohammed entered into the local spirit pantheons, so that interaction is easy and possible.

By confession ordered into the proper commando lines, without doubts. A pure technical thing, a banishement and an invocation. A rearrangement and confirmation of the new agreed spiritual hierarchy.

Of course anything that disturbs that artifical balance are considered "evil"...

The spirits in the operators personal universe just have to respond to the spirit of Muhammed or Jesus for example, instead of the avatar used before or none. The point is that the angels, demons and spirits reacts according to a such archetypical institution as the Genius. That may have been a great shaman grandgrandfather, or ones own guarding angel, creator of the universe. Or if not existing, then creating it.

That is Genius.

Google; genius holy guarding angel etc...

According to Goethia and other wellknown oriental and occidental traditions.
This example should be crystal clear and selfilluminative.

The royal principe in most such exesses are in short to replace all names of the actual prophet with your own and personal avatar. But that is the highpath, not for all. Many stick to a collective spiritual avatar, claims not all that temple dedication and discipline, not all have time and other required ressources available either. That is The Great Work.

For the masses, avatars like Jesus, Muhammed,( or God knows who or what you pray to if you ever? ), may work well. But remember, bying from middle men rises the price.

And to my Norse/Sami tongue, they all have a bi-taste, that I react on, because they are imperialistic in spirit, and behind the mask they wants to overrun me spiritual, to make me accept their god as "higher" and more "real" than mine own.

But I am about 7000 years older , and do not buy such. But the Islamic and Christian missions of command;" Go out and make all peoples my disciples"...( I know its not exact translated, but) are to the highest degree imperialistic? History proves I am very right.

These two monotheistic religions are those two I have got a taste of how they work on other spiritual cultures or religions, in Europe, Africa, Asia, Austalia and the Americas.

The nature of monotheistic religions have shown to be expanding, at least physical, and a pain in the ass for lesser or local gods, religions and cultures. It is the same evangelium USA and other imperialistic plagues preaches; Expand!

Ok, expand, but on behalf of what?
It must be someone...if they shall expand?

So are mperialistic religions, in conflict with the idea of nationalism, because they according to history always have crushed the nations own spiritual heritage where ever they came, and forcing the overun nations into spiritual threlldom.

By loosing their own spiritual identity, the people of the nation is weakened, by loosing selvesteem, and are confronted with the idea of themselves as spiritual inferior, since they condemned their forefathers knowledge as inferior to for some fancy imported stuff.

Towards Christianity we however should have a diplomatic attitude, great things takes time, and I honestly believe Christianity in Europe has died out witin a few hundred years... Same as the remaining Christians hope about those that are dedicated to northern gods...

So we should not waste energy, but accept the question of balance in the boat, and head against the primary enemy; the new imperialistic religions invading Europe.

But also accept the tendences of the shadowside of imperialistic religions, and handle it conscious, aware that they are there. As we have seen.

[Menydh]

Perhaps the question should be if Pagan/Pantheist religions are chosenitist like the Hebrew religion?

The answer is of course, they are.

[Savage]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

Perhaps the question should be if Pagan/Pantheist religions are chosenitist like the Hebrew religion?

The answer is of course, they are.

Hmmm..I dont exactly know what a "chosenist" does, but I guss the idea implies that the believer believes to be chosen by the deity or god.

And pure technical, why not?

Goods needs good tools in this world, and if a dedicated worshipper are well fitted, of course there may occure resonnense and make the communication between them easy. Thereby a worshipper may be found as a suitable vessel for the god, and for the worshipper, absorbation to or into his god is divine, illuminating the gods universe and principes, and thereby highly inspiring.

Inspiring, from - in spirit.

On the other hand, the oath of loyality to the lodge... , or the cult, or the religion, or the prophet, may overule other considerations, as loyalty to ones nation. It represents the center of the universe, the light in the dark, the fire to summond about.

Of course the brethren and cistern of the cult comes first! What should else a spiritual conspiracy be good for? (Principial, of course... )

It is not unusal in the inner chambers, that the only "real" people, secretly or openly are considered to be exlusively those of the sect. (the holy 3000 ..), and it in the uttermost consequenze does not really matter what happens to the "heaten". They can go to Hell, if they dont believe in our god.

And the large religions are nothing but cults in large scale. It is the same
dynamic principes that runs such circuses. Circus are not a disrespecting term here. The word church, Kirch, kirke, comes from circle, reflecting the magical circle in the temple.

There is inside of the circle, and there is outside. Exclusively.

[Eurovox]

Judaism is not an imperialistic religion, but a nationalistic and exclusivist one.

[Savage]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

Perhaps the question should be if Pagan/Pantheist religions are chosenitist like the Hebrew religion?

The answer is of course, they are.

Another thing is that Odin may have started his career as a Turkmenian chief. He used about 2000-3000 years to be rised to goodhod according to the christian Thor Heyerdahl.

IHVH originally may have started his career as a sumerian war god. I think he used about 6-7000 years on that part of the process.
I would guess he may have used a few thousand years before that to eventually rise from manhood to goodhood.

Genesis is constant, and be glad for that. Also, the tranformation from manhood to goodhood are reverseable, but takes thousands of years.

Our forefather knew the steps;

One make oneselfself a heap, when one die, ones body and symbols and nescessary items are buried in there. Also the Egyptians are into it.

The earthly items of the tomb makes it much easier for the spirit to find the place, and to dwell around a sphære constucted exactly for that.

To uphold the connection, the spirit therein must receive som kind of energy related to the actual sphære, some earthly substance, that may be any sacrifices, food, wine, prayer, animas, dedication, anything that brings energy to the idea.

Also remember, a such is never alone in the grave. There will be dedicated helpers of elemental kingdoms to guard and suit the resident. Also other familiar spirits may gather at a such gate.

The worshippers can come in touch with the forefathers here, for advice, help or whatever.. They on the other side, brings sacrifices and prayers to the dweller of the heap.

The more gifts and dedication, related substant energry the spirit receives, the stronger may get. Here comes the dynamic principe of expansion up.

Like in business, spirits or gods have to expand or be forgotten. There is no staus quo. They used to sacrifice horses on the heaps, to enrich it. Since the energy of the blot, spiritual, psychical and physical are focused and dedicated to the exact purpose, and charged with the precise runes, or archetypical manipulations, the heap will be consecrated and the spirit therein uploaded.
No other spirits touces that sacrifices witout joining... ( Åsgårdsrei, an tangled vessel of spirits of various classes and aspects)

But of course, the mental recyle of the operator of such projects, are very well describes by C.G.Jung as " Archetypical inflation"...

The nuthouses are filled up over the edge. But in this case rarely a problem for anyone. Who the heck have 10 000 years available? Even with the advantage of reaching hundreds of incarnations during that periode it would claim enormous ressources.

But as you understand, it is really no abrahadabra, it is possible to achieve goodhood. Just ask your shrink...

[Sergius]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

Perhaps the question should be if Pagan/Pantheist religions are chosenitist like the Hebrew religion?

The answer is of course, they are.

Originally Posted by Eurovox

Judaism is not an imperialistic religion, but a nationalistic and exclusivist one.

...and that is just fine. it's called ethno-centrism and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

besides, I honestly don't think this is the right time for a christian vs. 'pagan' debate on here, as clearly you have your minds on another discussion in a parallel thread.

peace,
dorje

[Eurovox]

Originally Posted by dorje

...and that is just fine. it's called ethno-centrism and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Indeed, I believe the same. The problem with the other monotheistic religions, Christianism and islamism reside in the fact that they are universalistic and totalitarian (particularly Islam) religions based in the equalitarian principle, exactly the same as communism as Alain de Benoist pointed out in his essay "Christianism, bloshevism of Antiquity", besides having forget Islam...

[Menydh]

Only if people don't know how to separate the terrenal from the spiritual: "Give Caesar what is Caesar's and God what is God's."

One objection that I have to New Age Paganists is that they are often (actually, always) completely biased.

For example, they never mention that the struggle of Europe against Islam was never racial but religious. No serious academic would ignore nowadays that the population of Islamic al Andalus was composed by two majority groups, the biggest being Muladis (Hispanic converts to Islam) and their descendents. The Neo-Pagan ever hostile discourse against Christianity turns the long centuries of Reconquista in a complete waste of time. After all, Christian or Muslim, they were all Spanish.

Same thing with the Turks. Surely you don't ignore that it wasn't race nor paganism what provided the glue for different European peoples to come to fight the Ottomans and to defend Vienna.

Again, think of Russia without Christianity and converted to Islam. Fortunately Christianity provided an ideology for the Russians to fight Islam.

It is striking to see how important it is for Paganists to bash off Christendom at any cost.

By the way, I would suggest to look into people from Nationalist-like ideologies of the past and the not so far back past who have converted to Islam. You might be surprised to know that they did not consider themselves Christian, but Pantheists, Pagans, etc.


As a last note to Thore, so far as I know the Roman Empire was not Monotheist until its last days, but Pantheist. Neither was the Empire of Alexander the Great. Nor the Egyptian Empire. They were all Pantheists. So now, the decent thing would be to open a new thread with the title "Are pantheist/pagan religions imperialistic?", with a similar rant to the one in the post which started this thread.

[Gil]

Originally Posted by Eurovox

The problem with the other monotheistic religions, Christianism and islamism reside in the fact that they are universalistic and totalitarian (particularly Islam) religions based in the equalitarian principle, exactly the same as communism as Alain de Benoist pointed out in his essay "Christianism, bloshevism of Antiquity", besides having forget Islam...

1st - Something (anything) can't be based on a equalitarian principle and at the same time totalitarian. Those two concepts are absolutely inverse.

2nd - Christianism and Islam have had force conversions in the past but neither enforce this practice in our days.

3rd - Christianism and Islam are based on a Universalist Principle, meaning that anyone can become part of the "faith", regardless of race, gender, etc; how that relates to communism I cannot see unless you think that some people have some rights while others don't.
Religions have always been a cohesive part of any society, be it celtic belief, roman catholicism, buddhism, etc, any other socio-political approach to the faith (theocracy, for example) is a perversion of the faith itself.

4th - Monotheism is as totalitarian as Polytheism, it does not matter which faith you are talking about but rather to the ethos and practices of the faith, you can't possibly generalise like that, that's as ridiculous as comparing an american religious sect and Catholicism by putting them in the same bag (Christendom).

Edit: just for those who don't know, i'm not Catholic or of any other christian confession nor am I pagan or Wiccan or whatever. This is my god.

[Erasmus]

The Church has a mission: to convert and to save all the people around the world (Catholic means "universal"), "Imperialistic" religions are Islam and Judaism, both enemies of Europe and Western civilization.

P.S.: "empire" and "Imperialism" are not the same; BTW, Spain was a Catholic "empire" and Britain is British "imperialism" .

[Savage]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

As a last note to Thore, so far as I know the Roman Empire was not Monotheist until its last days, but Pantheist. Neither was the Empire of Alexander the Great. Nor the Egyptian Empire. They were all Pantheists. So now, the decent thing would be to open a new thread with the title "Are pantheist/pagan religions imperialistic?", with a similar rant to the one in the post which started this thread.

I do not know anything about those "Pantheists/Pagans?"

I would not exactly call the "classical pyramide" Egyptians for pantheists.

What makes them pantheists do you think??

And no, a similar thread on nonchristians are not actual from me.

But try this one.

[Cristoforo]

Are monotheistic religions imperialistic?

Interesting question. Prime facie I would say yes since the believe in a one and only God usually implies that the gods of other people are fakes, so there could be this drive to educate them however it's not really that simple to answer the question. Judaism is a monotheist religion and yet it is not imperialist, not in the classical term at least.

Islam is definitely imperialistic, it even sets names for the land under its control and the land not under its control, ie, Dar el-Islam and Dar el-Harb respectively. Catholicism was imperialist at one time, with all the Missionaries that were sent but it seems that now they slowed down (or that's my impression at least). If these 2 religions are indeed imperialists, Christianity is losing the war because Islam is expanding at a much faster rate.

As a side note, if one considers past European colonialism as a factor for today's immigration, one must admit that religion too could be a factor for today's immigration, especially from Christian countries.

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by Thore Hund

I do not know anything about those "Pantheists/Pagans?"

I would not exactly call the "classical pyramide" Egyptians for pantheists.

What makes them pantheists do you think??

Main Entry: pan·the·ism
Pronunciation: 'pan(t)-thE-"i-z&m
Function: noun
Etymology: French panthéisme, from panthéiste pantheist, from English pantheist, from pan- + Greek theos god
1 : a doctrine that equates God with the forces and laws of the universe
2 : the worship of all gods of different creeds, cults, or peoples indifferently; also : toleration of worship of all gods (as at certain periods of the Roman empire)


You can read about the Egyptian pantheon in this link: http://library.thinkquest.org/12865/mray/pegy.htm

[Eurovox]

Mynydd, I am not a catholic, or even christian, I have no religion whatsoever, let's say I am near the atheistic view of things.

However, I do reconize the importance of Christianism, namely the Christendom, in our european history, it's huge wheight in the fight against islamic invasions, and the fanaticism of christian warriors, crusaders, against the forementioned invaders, a fanaticism that I doubt paganism could present due to it's intrinsic tolerant worldview.

Christianism has, for good and for bad, a very important role in Europe.

Gil,

Something (anything) can't be based on a equalitarian principle and at the same time totalitarian. Those two concepts are absolutely inverse.

By totalitarianism I do not mean just a dictaorship that impose it's rules. A totalitarian regimen extend all its influence in all spheres of social, religious, political life. Equalitarianism is perfectly harmonious with totalitarianism and Communism, Islam and some feudal Chrsitianism are the best examples.

Christianism and Islam have had force conversions in the past but neither enforce this practice in our days.

Christianism is now a rotten corpse waiting for the vultures. As for Islam, they are knowing a revival and they do not need to convert anyone by force, despite their menaces to those who dont convert. But perhaps i should remember you about the declarations of Abu Bakri in London, saying that Europeans will convert or... they will die! Or why not, those two journalist being hel in the gaza Strip already forced to convert to islam just to preserve their heads...

Christianism and Islam are based on a Universalist Principle, meaning that anyone can become part of the "faith", regardless of race, gender, etc; how that relates to communism I cannot see unless you think that some people have some rights while others don't.

Communism is a worldview based on a Internationalist(Universalist) principle, meaning that anyone can become part of the Ideology/party/"faith", regardless of race, gender, etc.
Now you see what relates communism to those two monotheistic religions.

Monotheism is as totalitarian as Polytheism, it does not matter which faith you are talking about but rather to the ethos and practices of the faith, you can't possibly generalise like that, that's as ridiculous as comparing an american religious sect and Catholicism by putting them in the same bag (Christendom).

Polytheism was always much more open to other influences, adopting gods, rituals, whatever, from other religions.
I can't I compare, because you dont like? Be it an american christian sect or the Vatican, their god is the same, their holy book is the same, their principles are the same. And for your information, Christendom is long gone and was buried at the Vatican II Council.

Cristoforo, very good observations.