Liberal Christianity is paying for its sins

[Menydh]

Liberal Christianity is paying for its sins

Out-of-the-mainstream beliefs about gay marriage and supposedly sexist doctrines are gutting old-line faiths.

Los Angeles Times
July 9, 2006

The accelerating fragmentation of the strife-torn Episcopal Church USA, in which several parishes and even a few dioceses are opting out of the church, isn't simply about gay bishops, the blessing of same-sex unions or the election of a woman as presiding bishop. It also is about the meltdown of liberal Christianity.

Embraced by the leadership of all the mainline Protestant denominations, as well as large segments of American Catholicism, liberal Christianity has been hailed by its boosters for 40 years as the future of the Christian church.

Instead, as all but a few die-hards now admit, all the mainline churches and movements within churches that have blurred doctrine and softened moral precepts are demographically declining and, in the case of the Episcopal Church, disintegrating.

It is not entirely coincidental that at about the same time that Episcopalians, at their general convention in Columbus, Ohio, were thumbing their noses at a directive from the worldwide Anglican Communion that they "repent" of confirming the openly gay Bishop V. Gene Robinson of New Hampshire three years ago, the Presbyterian Church USA, at its general assembly in Birmingham, Ala., was turning itself into the laughingstock of the blogosphere by tacitly approving alternative designations for the supposedly sexist Christian Trinity of Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Among the suggested names were "Mother, Child and Womb" and "Rock, Redeemer and Friend." Moved by the spirit of the Presbyterian revisionists, Beliefnet blogger Rod Dreher held a "Name That Trinity" contest. Entries included "Rock, Scissors and Paper" and "Larry, Curly and Moe."

Following the Episcopalian lead, the Presbyterians also voted to give local congregations the freedom to ordain openly cohabiting gay and lesbian ministers and endorsed the legalization of medical marijuana. (The latter may be a good idea, but it is hard to see how it falls under the theological purview of a Christian denomination.)

The Presbyterian Church USA is famous for its 1993 conference, cosponsored with the United Methodist Church, the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America and other mainline churches, in which participants "reimagined" God as "Our Maker Sophia" and held a feminist-inspired "milk and honey" ritual designed to replace traditional bread-and-wine Communion.

As if to one-up the Presbyterians in jettisoning age-old elements of Christian belief, the Episcopalians at Columbus overwhelmingly refused even to consider a resolution affirming that Jesus Christ is Lord. When a Christian church cannot bring itself to endorse a bedrock Christian theological statement repeatedly found in the New Testament, it is not a serious Christian church. It's a Church of What's Happening Now, conferring a feel-good imprimatur on whatever the liberal elements of secular society deem permissible or politically correct.

You want to have gay sex? Be a female bishop? Change God's name to Sophia? Go ahead. The just-elected Episcopal presiding bishop, Katharine Jefferts Schori, is a one-woman combination of all these things, having voted for Robinson, blessed same-sex couples in her Nevada diocese, prayed to a female Jesus at the Columbus convention and invited former Newark, N.J., bishop John Shelby Spong, famous for denying Christ's divinity, to address her priests.

When a church doesn't take itself seriously, neither do its members. It is hard to believe that as recently as 1960, members of mainline churches — Episcopalians, Presbyterians, Methodists, Lutherans and the like — accounted for 40% of all American Protestants. Today, it's more like 12% (17 million out of 135 million). Some of the precipitous decline is due to lower birthrates among the generally blue-state mainliners, but it also is clear that millions of mainline adherents (and especially their children) have simply walked out of the pews never to return. According to the Hartford Institute for Religious Research, in 1965, there were 3.4 million Episcopalians; now, there are 2.3 million. The number of Presbyterians fell from 4.3 million in 1965 to 2.5 million today. Compare that with 16 million members reported by the Southern Baptists.

When your religion says "whatever" on doctrinal matters, regards Jesus as just another wise teacher, refuses on principle to evangelize and lets you do pretty much what you want, it's a short step to deciding that one of the things you don't want to do is get up on Sunday morning and go to church.

It doesn't help matters that the mainline churches were pioneers in ordaining women to the clergy, to the point that 25% of all Episcopal priests these days are female, as are 29% of all Presbyterian pastors, according to the two churches. A causal connection between a critical mass of female clergy and a mass exodus from the churches, especially among men, would be difficult to establish, but is it entirely a coincidence? Sociologist Rodney Stark ("The Rise of Christianity") and historian Philip Jenkins ("The Next Christendom") contend that the more demands, ethical and doctrinal, that a faith places upon its adherents, the deeper the adherents' commitment to that faith. Evangelical and Pentecostal churches, which preach biblical morality, have no trouble saying that Jesus is Lord, and they generally eschew women's ordination. The churches are growing robustly, both in the United States and around the world.

Despite the fact that median Sunday attendance at Episcopal churches is 80 worshipers, the Episcopal Church, as a whole, is financially equipped to carry on for some time, thanks to its inventory of vintage real estate and huge endowments left over from the days (no more!) when it was the Republican Party at prayer. Furthermore, it has offset some of its demographic losses by attracting disaffected liberal Catholics and gays and lesbians. The less endowed Presbyterian Church USA is in deeper trouble. Just before its general assembly in Birmingham, it announced that it would eliminate 75 jobs to meet a $9.15-million budget cut at its headquarters, the third such round of job cuts in four years.

The Episcopalians have smells, bells, needlework cushions and colorfully garbed, Catholic-looking bishops as draws, but who, under the present circumstances, wants to become a Presbyterian?

Still, it must be galling to Episcopal liberals that many of the parishes and dioceses (including that of San Joaquin, Calif.) that want to pull out of the Episcopal Church USA are growing instead of shrinking, have live people in the pews who pay for the upkeep of their churches and don't have to rely on dead rich people. The 21-year-old Christ Church Episcopal in Plano, Texas, for example, is one of the largest Episcopal churches in the country. Its 2,200 worshipers on any given Sunday are about equal to the number of active Episcopalians in Jefferts Schori's entire Nevada diocese.

It's no surprise that Christ Church, like the other dissident parishes, preaches a very conservative theology. Its break from the national church came after Rowan Williams, archbishop of Canterbury and head of the Anglican Communion, proposed a two-tier membership in which the Episcopal Church USA and other churches that decline to adhere to traditional biblical standards would have "associate" status in the communion. The dissidents hope to retain full communication with Canterbury by establishing oversight by non-U.S. Anglican bishops.

As for the rest of the Episcopalians, the phrase "deck chairs on the Titanic" comes to mind. A number of liberal Episcopal websites are devoted these days to dissing Peter Akinola, outspoken primate of the Anglican diocese of Nigeria, who, like the vast majority of the world's 77 million Anglicans reported by the Anglican Communion, believes that "homosexual practice" is "incompatible with Scripture" (those words are from the communion's 1998 resolution at the Lambeth conference of bishops). Akinola might have the numbers on his side, but he is now the Voldemort — no, make that the Karl Rove — of the U.S. Episcopal world. Other liberals fume over a feeble last-minute resolution in Columbus calling for "restraint" in consecrating bishops whose lifestyle might offend "the wider church" — a resolution immediately ignored when a second openly cohabitating gay man was nominated for bishop of Newark.

So this is the liberal Christianity that was supposed to be the Christianity of the future: disarray, schism, rapidly falling numbers of adherents, a collapse of Christology and national meetings that rival those of the Modern Language Assn. for their potential for cheap laughs. And they keep telling the Catholic Church that it had better get with the liberal program — ordain women, bless gay unions and so forth — or die. Sure.


[source]

[Menydh]

I haven't put this article under the forum of Christianity because it is obvious that many of these so-called christians are not in reality Christians. Some fall in the category of Neo-Judaics while others in the category of American sects.

[Errigal]

Sadly, this is a very accurate description of the mainstream Protestant churches in the English speaking world. I myself am Anglican only in the “tribal” sense, it is the religious tradition of my family but I feel almost no bond with the current leadership and organization.

The “Protestant” churches which are growing in North America are unfortunately the kinds which have an unhealthy fascination with the Old Testament, Israel and the Jews. The only positive policies the Episcopalian and Presbyterian Churches have are their boycott of Israel and condemnation of the Iraq war.

[Milesian]

These sects want to change everything that is even remotely Christian.
The honest response to their problems with Christianity woul dbe to go and start their own wacko religion. Instead, they insist on calling themselves Christian.

Either they are in a state of psychotic denial, or they are maliciously intending to inflict serious humiliation of Christianity. I think it's probably a combination of both but more of the latter.

[Errigal]

Originally Posted by Milesian

Either they are in a state of psychotic denial, or they are maliciously intending to inflict serious humiliation of Christianity. I think it's probably a combination of both but more of the latter.

Quite right. I think it is part of a much bigger crisis in western civilization; there are many who believe the pillars of European civilization must be pulled down; not just Christianity but the classical tradition as well.
Perhaps it comes from the crisis of confidence which followed the two World Wars, I don't know.

Sometimes I really despair when I see this almost unstoppable urge to commit cultural suicide. In many ways it is terrifying.

[Milesian]

Originally Posted by A Few Acres of Snow

Perhaps it comes from the crisis of confidence which followed the two World Wars, I don't know

Perhaps, but I'm a cynic in the sense that I perceive a more sinister, deliberate hand in all these things. What are the instruments that promote these feelings of the guilt of Europeans, the attaction of foreign exotic cultures and values, the destruction of the family unit, the animosity/hostility of the genders towards each other, the rejection of our very identities?
Society has and is being shaped a certain way by the media and opinion formers. I think we are misjudging the situation if we think this is all happening by chance. On the contrary, there certainly seems to be a malevolent intelligence driving things forward to the edge of the abyss

[Errigal]

Originally Posted by Milesian

Perhaps, but I'm a cynic in the sense that I perceive a more sinister, deliberate hand in all these things. What are the instruments that promote these feelings of the guilt of Europeans, the attaction of foreign exotic cultures and values, the destruction of the family unit, the animosity/hostility of the genders towards each other, the rejection of our very identities?
Society has and is being shaped a certain way by the media and opinion formers. I think we are misjudging the situation if we think this is all happening by chance. On the contrary, there certainly seems to be a malevolent intelligence driving things forward to the edge of the abyss

Yes, like an injury the two wars made us vulnerable to infection from hostile elements who believe they can only be safe in a secular, multi-ethnic, multiracial, money driven society.

[Errigal]

Here is a very different type of Christianity as reported by The Jewish Telegraphic Agency

Argentine bishop to lead neo-Nazis in prayer

A controversial Catholic bishop in Argentina said he would lead a prayer meeting with neo-Nazis. The news that Antonio Baseotto will lead the prayers at the Aug. 20 meeting of anti-Semitic and extremist right-wing groups in Argentina has caused concern among Catholic clergy. Baseotto caused an uproar in Argentina in 2005 when he recommended that the health minister, an advocate of legalizing abortion, “should be thrown into the river with a rock tied around his neck.”
Baseotto also denigrated Jews in a television interview.
“The majority of the Jewish community in Argentina are very able businessmen with little moral principles,” he said, adding, “If it means selling pornography, they sell pornography. If it means selling drugs, they sell drugs. If it means blackmail, they will blackmail.”
The government of President Nestor Kirchner responded to the statements by calling on the Vatican to remove Baseotto from his job as Catholic military chaplain, and announced it would no longer pay his salary.
The Vatican has refused to remove him.

I think I might be a Catholic trapped in a Protestant's body!

[Milesian]

The Catholic Church in South America has often been very right-wing in it's outlook (ie. authentically Catholic) even while other regions have dabbled with Liberalism

Communism is another enemy of the Catholic Church. The Masonic
sect gathers together the "Bourgeois"; the Communists gather together the "Proletarians". The aim of each group is the same: a socialist
society, rationalistic, without God and without Christ. The two movements have one common head: international Jewry.......

What used to be called "politics of the right" such as Fascism
and National Socialism, were in fact to combat movements against the
Church of Christ.

~ Bishop Siguad, August 22nd 1959

[Errigal]

Originally Posted by Milesian

The Catholic Church in South America has often been very right-wing in it's outlook (ie. authentically Catholic) even while other regions have dabbled with Liberalism

Yes, the differences between Latin American and European politics are worth noting. Because the United States interfered in Latin America years before it became a force in the internal affairs of Europe, anti-Americanism and communism became much more entangled. The Cuba of Fidel Castro is a good example; this is from a biography of Castro:

Jesuit Influence

At Havana's exclusive El Colegio de Belén, Fidel Castro studied under Jesuit priests. It was the 1940s, and the experience of the Spanish Civil War was still fresh. Spanish Nationalists under Francisco Franco had identified with the Fascists, and anti-Americanism ran high within their ranks. Castro's Jesuit teachers imbued the young Fidel with the idea of Hispanidad, stressing the superiority of Spanish values of honor and pride as opposed to the materialistic values of the Anglo-Saxon world. Once he entered the University of Havana, Castro came in contact with the writings of nationalist professors who believed Cuba's destiny had been thwarted by the intervention of the United States. The intervention of 1898, the Platt Amendment and U.S. economic domination had combined to strip Cuba of its independence and national pride. In Castro's belief system, Cuba's political failure was America's fault.

It is worth noting that Castro ordered a week of official mourning upon the death of General Franco and has celebrated mass with the Pope, unlike the current Prime Minister of Spain.

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by A Few Acres of Snow

It is worth noting that Castro ordered a week of official mourning upon the death of General Franco and has celebrated mass with the Pope, unlike the current Prime Minister of Spain.

You must understand that Zapatero is a retard. He should be running for the White House next.

[Ederico]

I'm a faithful and practicing Roman Catholic. I politically adhere to the social doctrine of Traditional Catholicism. L

Liberal Christianity is humbug, it might be a reason why many pro-nationalist and/or pro-European people turn to notions such as the New Right and neo-paganistic pseudo-traditional religions which are merely a smokescreen for the same liberal morality which is generally accompanied by atheism. Liberal Christianity is not proper Roman Catholicism, only what nowadays is termed Traditional Catholicism will do.

[Marcus Marulus]

Certain priests and theologians of different chrurches became infected with Masonic ideas. You must bear in mind that the ideology of the so-called modern world (ie. the Freemasonic ideology) is in a way akin to christianity. It is in fact a perversion of Christianity, it is the result of Devil imitating God.

The attraction European peoples feel for the Universalist ideas of today can be traced back to the Christian heritage. It is a kind of deception. Free-Masonry and Liberalism are in fact inverted Christianity. The traditional Christian doctrine is centered around the life in hereafter. Everything man does in this world is just a preparation for the life in eternity with God. Christian morality requested charity, love of the fellow man, justice, a metaphysical brotherhood of all men (as created at the image of God).

Now the modern Liberalism (from the English and French Enlightenment on) abandoned and rejected God, leaving only Christian morality. A perversion followed: love of the fellow man degenerated into a shallow humanitarianism, the appeal for justice into sacralisation of the Law (the supreme divinity of the modern Western world), morality became moralism (eg. the American sense of mission in the world, imposing democracy etc.), the brotherhood of men degenerated into the one-world-ideology etc.

In short, the modern Liberal West doesn't care about the Paradise in the hereafter, but wants to create a "heaven on earth." Bearers of this ideology think they are absolutely right, they represent forces of Good and anyone who opposes them is considered as being on the side of evil. USA and USSR were the most prominent bearers of this idea, now we have only USA. From the presumption of their absolute righteousness comes an unimaginable cruelty in pursuing their aims. USA with its divine mission has "right" to do any kind of evil deeds in order for the "higher Good" to triumph in the world. Hence cruelty, hatred and thirst for mass-murders...

An identification with ancient Israelites of the Old Testament plays saome role in this ideology too: all those who do not live by the "Law" must be put to sword...

Many Christian Churches accepted these ideas...

[Kernunnos]

Originally Posted by Milesian

These sects want to change everything that is even remotely Christian.
The honest response to their problems with Christianity woul dbe to go and start their own wacko religion. Instead, they insist on calling themselve