Catharism, the religion of the Cathars

[Kernunnos]

Originally Posted by Antikosmikos

Hello to everybody!
My paternal ancestors were Cathars of Piedmont (Italy). My grandmother didn't eat meat, eggs and cheese, and until she died, her sons followed that usage strictly. My aunt considered foetuses demons, and had an absolute horror of sex. She often cursed the Evil Creator, because that Lord had forced women and men to live together on the same earth. Her words were reminiscent of the Cena Secreta, a text of Bogomil origin. Considering all this and several other evidences, I know of sure that my paternal family gave origin to many Boni Homines during the Middle Age.
Unfortunately the Consolamentum was lost, and now I must search for a valid one in order to revive and spread the Faith of my Fathers.
The secret succession must be still alive, as it is written that the True Church of God will exist till Judgment Day.
Sincerely
Marco

Are you so eager to become abhorrent of sex? i mean all of sex ...

[Antikosmikos]

The material universe is a terrible place, and to live in it is so painful that there is only one thing a wise person could do: to find a way out. Without sexual intercourse, this horrible jail would fall in dust, getting all Good Spirits free. All sex seems to me like a rotten corpse, I see its pleasure like a bulk of fleshworms. The last female I touched was more than two years ago. If I remember it, she seems to me like an infect prostitute. The voluntary extinction of Mankind is the aim of my Faith.

[Dux]

Originally Posted by Antikosmikos

The material universe is a terrible place, and to live in it is so painful that there is only one thing a wise person could do: to find a way out. Without sexual intercourse, this horrible jail would fall in dust, getting all Good Spirits free. All sex seems to me like a rotten corpse, I see its pleasure like a bulk of fleshworms. The last female I touched was more than two years ago. If I remember it, she seems to me like an infect prostitute. The voluntary extinction of Mankind is the aim of my Faith.

That's because you've become an unbalanced person. You can't find the middle of the road, the balance, the equilibrium, so the purpose of your existence becomes corrupted by not understanding your own self and not knowing what and where you belong to.

There's always a shortcut for you to avoid any more pain: carbon monoxide is the best, because of being absolutely painless.

As for the rest of mankind, let people be what they want. Can't you accept what you are and improve yourself? Nosce te ipsum.

[Engelbrecht]

Originally Posted by Antikosmikos

The material universe is a terrible place, and to live in it is so painful that there is only one thing a wise person could do: to find a way out. Without sexual intercourse, this horrible jail would fall in dust, getting all Good Spirits free. All sex seems to me like a rotten corpse, I see its pleasure like a bulk of fleshworms. The last female I touched was more than two years ago. If I remember it, she seems to me like an infect prostitute. The voluntary extinction of Mankind is the aim of my Faith.

Without sexual intercourse you wouldn´t be here posting. God is love and we are made in His image. Sex between spouses are Gods own mark of love in human form. And the result of that love is you and your ability to post your anti-life agenda.

[Antikosmikos]

Without sexual intercourse I would be in Heaven. There are two Gods, one is the True God, Creator of all eternal things, the other one is the Lord of this World, the Evil God. The Evil God is not love. Our bodies were created in Satan's image and all concerning them is the Malignant Creation. My Fathers accepted to procreate only because the Faith must be kept alive till Judgment Day. I'm alive because I have a mission, I must spread the Truth among all people of this damned planet. Sex between spouses is the worst filth. Matrimonium est meretricium, matrimonium est lupanar. The result of that love is the material world, made of cancer, sickness, hunger, death, war, extermination, genocide, pestilence, putrefaction and so on. I know myself: I'm an angel of fire imprisoned in a demonic body.

[Lutiferre]

Originally Posted by Antikosmikos

Without sexual intercourse I would be in Heaven. There are two Gods, one is the True God, Creator of all eternal things, the other one is the Lord of this World, the Evil God. The Evil God is not love. Our bodies were created in Satan's image and all concerning them is the Malignant Creation. My Fathers accepted to procreate only because the Faith must be kept alive till Judgment Day. I'm alive because I have a mission, I must spread the Truth among all people of this damned planet. Sex between spouses is the worst filth. Matrimonium est meretricium, matrimonium est lupanar. The result of that love is the material world, made of cancer, sickness, hunger, death, war, extermination, genocide, pestilence, putrefaction and so on. I know myself: I'm an angel of fire imprisoned in a demonic body.

Never before have I come across such a negative and pessimistic worldview. If you truly see nothing good in the world, then go ahead and commit suicide. I'm sure you wont be missed, and the same goes for you 'mission'.

[Dux]

Originally Posted by Antikosmikos

I know myself: I'm an angel of fire imprisoned in a demonic body.

Really?

I'm pretty tolerant and open to unknown theories and I always want to listen before making judgements so please answer point by point:

1. who has imprisoned you (and us)?
2. why?
3. how?
4. who let it happen?
5. where were you before this Imprisonment ?
6. how was life before this Imprisonment?
7. what about the other animals?

[Pirate]

Never mind that antikosmos or whatever, that posts of his are either product of consuming large amount of illegal drugs, VERY large amount of alcoholic beverages or both. That's the only reasonable explanation.

[Kernunnos]

Originally Posted by Antikosmikos

Without sexual intercourse I would be in Heaven. There are two Gods, one is the True God, Creator of all eternal things, the other one is the Lord of this World, the Evil God. The Evil God is not love. Our bodies were created in Satan's image and all concerning them is the Malignant Creation. My Fathers accepted to procreate only because the Faith must be kept alive till Judgment Day. I'm alive because I have a mission, I must spread the Truth among all people of this damned planet. Sex between spouses is the worst filth. Matrimonium est meretricium, matrimonium est lupanar. The result of that love is the material world, made of cancer, sickness, hunger, death, war, extermination, genocide, pestilence, putrefaction and so on. I know myself: I'm an angel of fire imprisoned in a demonic body.

Stop eating and drinking and you will quickly drop that flesh you hate so much for eternity.

Why don't you suicide then, if you despise life so much? you could be a good example to others.

philosophically, your tenets are flawed in a rather clear way.

If god hates mankind so much as to imprison pure souls into a rotten flesh, do you think that after death he wouldn't be playing again teh same game with us? Why not, having been so cruel before?

You act quite like Browning's Caliban in Caliban upon Setebos: we would be brutes being cast upon this earth for the mischievous solace of an evil creator.


In such case, such entity wouldn't easily spare us even after death.

[Kernunnos]

PS

may God give you at least the will to enjoy a good steak with manually fried potatoes ...

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by Antikosmikos

Matrimonium est meretricium, matrimonium est lupanar.

I find it very hard to believe that you might tell your mother that she is a whore, your father that he is her pimp, and that their union is a farse of which you are the result.

Or, if you do and your parents being Cathars agree with that belief, the god you worship must be an evil one who tortures the believers for the sake of it.

Although I guess that you will tell me that it is the Rex Mundi, the evil force who traps souls into bodies. If that's so, what is the redemption under your beliefs or what did Christ come to the world for?

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by Kernunnos

philosophically, your tenets are flawed in a rather clear way.

If god hates mankind so much as to imprison pure souls into a rotten flesh, do you think that after death he wouldn't be playing again teh same game with us? Why not, having been so cruel before?

You must admit that, if one gives human nature a deep thought, realizing how flawed it is in many sense, it is not difficult to arrive to the conclusion that a perfect being that God is supposed to be cannot have created or wanted the existance of humans in their matter.

However flawed the conclusion may be, from a philosophical and theological point of view.

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by Antikosmikos

The material universe is a terrible place, and to live in it is so painful that there is only one thing a wise person could do: to find a way out. Without sexual intercourse, this horrible jail would fall in dust, getting all Good Spirits free. All sex seems to me like a rotten corpse, I see its pleasure like a bulk of fleshworms. The last female I touched was more than two years ago. If I remember it, she seems to me like an infect prostitute. The voluntary extinction of Mankind is the aim of my Faith.

It sounds to me like a thinking resulted from the inability to cope with the nature of one's self being.

I do go through periods of sexual disinterest. Through them, I often think how amazing it is that people would resort to such things as viagra pills to resucitate their sexual prowess. It occurs to me that if it ever happened to me, I would be released more than burdened from it. So I can understand the disinterest, and even the dislike for sex. Well, dislike if, when sex is taken as little more than a night passtime.

But to make it sound as a disgusting act is to take things too much out of context.

[Dux]

Catharianism is way too mad and extreme... yet among their wild beliefs they have an interesting one:

According to them, the Old Testament is a scam made by a pseudo-Creator, a lurking Impostor (Rex Mundi) which claims to be the one and only God.

I seriously agree with that. And I would call him not Rex Mundi, but YHWV. He is not God, he may well be a usurper and the J's fit well as his loyal servants and «agents».

[Marcus Marulus]

Catharism is a Medieval off-shot of what was in the Antiquity known as Gnosticism. Gnostics despised flesh too, as well as marriage. Some of the Gnostic cults indulged in ritual sexual orgies. That sounds a bit strange, given their view of sexual intercourse as something evil per se. But their logic was that by sexual debauchery (group sex, ritual masturbation, changing "partners" inside a devoted group, abortion if there occurred conception etc) they debased flesh and showed their contempt for marriage, an abominable institution which is devoted to propagating life, or, speaking in their terms, to imprisoning more souls into evil bodies.

I am speaking not of all Gnostics, but of some cults.

Modern ubiquitous presence of pornography in various forms might maybe be seen as revival of the old Gnostic spirit.