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Old Saturday, April 23rd, 2005
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Default Christians and Pagans Agree, Wicca Emerging as America's Third Religion

Christians and Pagans Agree, Wicca Emerging as America's Third Religion


Christians and Pagans agree that the Wiccan community is growing at an exceptional rate, and is projected to be the Third Largest religion by 2012.

(PRWEB) April 21, 2005 -- Earth Day celebrations are seen as a way to recognize the need to save and protect Mother Earth. For some that image is not simply a slogan or phrase but the center of their worship and religious life. Known as Wiccans, aka Witches and Pagans, Nature worshippers are becoming more numerous and their concepts are emerging to challenge traditional rules of society based on biblical law. They are emerging to become a major force in spiritual communities, having increasing number of adherents, and expecting the same rights and privileges as Christians and other faith practices of the United States.

Steve Wohlberg, in his book the Hour of the Witch, was the first to state the conclusion that we are now in a turning point and that Wicca would emerge as the third largest faith in America and would directly challenge Christian ideals of church and state. This is collaborated by leading Pagan leader and researcher, Phyliss Currott stating the Wiccan community is doubling in size every 18 months. That is a predicted future community of twenty million or more members in the United States by 2012. By both Christian and Pagan standards that would be a significant shift in American society.

Wolhberg continues "Witchcraft is growing so fast on high school and college campuses that Wiccan visionaires are rushing to establish their own schools." This is meant as a warning to Christian parents. Chas Cliftion, editor of Pomegranate: The International Journal Of Pagan Studies has a collaborating statement: "We (Pagans) are like a third world country that can't put up enough elementary schools fast enough.". Pagans and Christians agree that Wicca is becoming a major religious educational force in America.

In desperate need of training and trained teachers, many turn to WitchSchool.com on the internet. This is not a small informational site but a full fledged school with over 130,000 students, a staff of over 300, and every online tool of any major university. According to the President Davron Michaels, "The school is a important part of the emerging healthy community that can provide the needed training for services and duties required of our members. Right now that mission includes helping the over one new hundred students a day that join us to get their quality understanding of the basics of Wicca. We are providing education at every level for thousands of Witches world wide. It is a sacred trust that we are faced with everyday.'

So is it possible that this Earth Day, that we are seeing the seeds to a future community, deeply spiritual and dedicated to simply loving Mother Earth. Can America's Third Religion be Wicca?

It is something to ponder.





http://www.prweb.com/releases/2005/4/prweb231351.php
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Old Monday, April 25th, 2005
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Default Re: Christians and Pagans Agree, Wicca Emerging as America's Third Religion

Wicca has to be the biggest BS ever to enter the realm of religion.
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"Love for a man's own nation must not make a man into a wild animal, which tears down and provokes revenge; it must make him more noble, so that he can gain the respect and love of other nations for his nation. Therefore love toward your own nation is not contradictory to love for the whole of mankind; they complement each other. All of the nations are children of God."
--Cardinal Alojzije Stepinac, 1938
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Old Monday, April 25th, 2005
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Default Re: Christians and Pagans Agree, Wicca Emerging as America's Third Religion

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Originally Posted by Perun
Wicca has to be the biggest BS ever to enter the realm of religion.
Why do you think that? Im no fan of wicca either but it would be nce to hear why you feel so strongly about wicca and hope that Christianity makes any more sense. Dont tell me to "Shut Up" either
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Old Monday, April 25th, 2005
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Default Re: Christians and Pagans Agree, Wicca Emerging as America's Third Religion

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Originally Posted by Green Nationalist
Why do you think that? Im no fan of wicca either but it would be nce to hear why you feel so strongly about wicca and hope that Christianity makes any more sense. Dont tell me to "Shut Up" either
The nice thing about Neo-Paganism is that it is ethnically specific and encourages people to get in touch with their cultural roots, unlike Christianity which promotes a more universal outlook, which becomes in practice: feed the starving children of India but neglect the local neighborhood.
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Old Monday, April 25th, 2005
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Default Re: Christians and Pagans Agree, Wicca Emerging as America's Third Religion

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Originally Posted by Scoob
The nice thing about Neo-Paganism is that it is ethnically specific and encourages people to get in touch with their cultural roots, unlike Christianity which promotes a more universal outlook, which becomes in practice: feed the starving children of India but neglect the local neighborhood.
Thats absolutely not true! Christianity promotes particularism, but one balanced at the same time with a sense of universalism. So one can clearly see both notions within the Bible and other Christian writings. Christ before he ascended to heaven told the Apostles to make "discples of all the nations". Christ then gave them the power to do so through Pentecost, which affirmed that the division of mankind into nations is of Divine command(as it was in the Old Testament with the Tower of Babel).

Paul did say "There is neither Greek nor Jew", but he meant that the salvation that Christ brought is open to everybody, as opposed to paganism which restricts it on basis of ethncity, locality, gender, occupation, etc(depending on which form of paganism you're talking about). He did not mean that there are no such ethnic loyalties, for he boasts of his ethnic heritage in his epistles.
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"Love for a man's own nation must not make a man into a wild animal, which tears down and provokes revenge; it must make him more noble, so that he can gain the respect and love of other nations for his nation. Therefore love toward your own nation is not contradictory to love for the whole of mankind; they complement each other. All of the nations are children of God."
--Cardinal Alojzije Stepinac, 1938
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Old Monday, April 25th, 2005
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Default Re: Christians and Pagans Agree, Wicca Emerging as America's Third Religion

Wicca is seen by many as a easy way out, simply because christianity has rules which aren't easy to follow... I'm not a christian myself and i'm neither a pagan so I don't have a biased view on this, i've got pagan and christian friends and what I can say is that the vast majority of wiccans and adepts of druidism, naturalism, shamanism, whatever, are christians who felt that either the Catholic Church or any other protestant confession was "too uptight" or "too strict". I'm not saying that everyone has the same reasons for joining/becoming a pagan, I just think that those numbers, specifically in the case of the US, are just predictable.
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Old Monday, April 25th, 2005
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Default Re: Christians and Pagans Agree, Wicca Emerging as America's Third Religion

Wicca really has little to do with paganism either. It's a charade plain and simple!
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"Everything begins in mysticism and ends in politics."
--Charles Peguy

"Love for a man's own nation must not make a man into a wild animal, which tears down and provokes revenge; it must make him more noble, so that he can gain the respect and love of other nations for his nation. Therefore love toward your own nation is not contradictory to love for the whole of mankind; they complement each other. All of the nations are children of God."
--Cardinal Alojzije Stepinac, 1938
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Default Re: Christians and Pagans Agree, Wicca Emerging as America's Third Religion

I don't know any Wiccans, so I can't speak for their quality of character. Perhaps modern "wicca" is naturalism, basing human personal values and deriving spiritual meaning from the natural world and its laws.
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Default Re: Christians and Pagans Agree, Wicca Emerging as America's Third Religion

Wicca is an eclectic merge of pseudo-witchcraft and naturalistic beliefs. Most "covenants", as wiccan groups call themselves, affirm they are the heirs of the Middle Ages' witches and even that Wicca was the original religious belief of the pre-indo-european, pre-roman, pre-christian, europeans. Most wiccans (though there are exceptions) believe in the dual figures of the Goddess and the God, being the female counterpart the most important. They sometimes state that christian and roman and all the other religions are patriarchal institutions created to destroy the "womens role as leaders and their mystical connection to the paranormal/divine world".
Of course i'm not saying this is an absolute truth, as always there are those who truly believe this and are not in it for escapism or because they couldn't stand up to christian or whatever morals.
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Old Monday, April 25th, 2005
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Default Re: Christians and Pagans Agree, Wicca Emerging as America's Third Religion

If it didn't rip off authentic past religions (Celtic mainly) and substitute modern inventions and innovations into it then I might be inclined to look upon it with slightly less distaste. In all, I don't think it presents a solution to the modern condition, but is merely symptomatic of it.

No offense to any Wiccans but I think this belongs in the realm of Buffy and co.
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- Edmund Curtis (A History of Ireland: From Earliest Times to 1922)

The Irish are one of the most ancient nations that I know of at this end of the world, and are from as mighty a race as the world ever brought forth.
For it is certain that Ireland hath had the use of letters very anciently and long before England; that they had letters anciently is nothing doubtful, for the Saxons of England are said to have their letters and learning, and learned men, from the Irish.
- Edmund Spenser (writer, and British Government Official in Ireland, AD 1596).

The renaissance began in Ireland seven hundred years before it was known in Italy. And Armagh, the ecclesiastical capital of Ireland, was at one time the metropolis of civilisation.
- Arsene Darmesteter, Professor of Old French and Literature

Ireland can indeed lay claim to a great past; she can not only boast of having been the birthplace and abode of high culture in the fifth and sixth centuries . . . but also of having made strenous efforts in the seventh and up to the tenth century to spread her learning among the German and Romance peoples, thus forming the actual fountain of our present continental civilisation.
- Heinrich Zimmer, Professor of Celtic and Sanskrit, Member of the Prussian Academy of Sciences
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Default Re: Christians and Pagans Agree, Wicca Emerging as America's Third Religion

Wiccans try to incoperate semitic morality into european pre christian paganism, and it doesnt work. It ends up as some kind of new age hippy love mysticism.

Most wiccans hate nationalism also.
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Default Re: Christians and Pagans Agree, Wicca Emerging as America's Third Religion

I see Wiccanism(?) as the folk religion equivalent of communism, they seem to believe that somehow if we all come together and come back to the Earth, the world will be a better place. Most of the Wiccans I have met seem lost and unclear about what they actually believe. Is it true that the wiccan religion is only 50-60 years old?
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Old Tuesday, April 26th, 2005
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Default Re: Christians and Pagans Agree, Wicca Emerging as America's Third Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Folk you
I see Wiccanism(?) as the folk religion equivalent of communism, they seem to believe that somehow if we all come together and come back to the Earth, the world will be a better place. Most of the Wiccans I have met seem lost and unclear about what they actually believe. Is it true that the wiccan religion is only 50-60 years old?
Wouldn't suprise me.
Like most of these wannabe ancestral religions, it's about as old as that stale loaf moulding in the bread-box.
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The traditions of the Irish people are the oldest of any race in Europe north and west of the Alps, and they themselves are the longest settled on their own soil
- Edmund Curtis (A History of Ireland: From Earliest Times to 1922)

The Irish are one of the most ancient nations that I know of at this end of the world, and are from as mighty a race as the world ever brought forth.
For it is certain that Ireland hath had the use of letters very anciently and long before England; that they had letters anciently is nothing doubtful, for the Saxons of England are said to have their letters and learning, and learned men, from the Irish.
- Edmund Spenser (writer, and British Government Official in Ireland, AD 1596).

The renaissance began in Ireland seven hundred years before it was known in Italy. And Armagh, the ecclesiastical capital of Ireland, was at one time the metropolis of civilisation.
- Arsene Darmesteter, Professor of Old French and Literature

Ireland can indeed lay claim to a great past; she can not only boast of having been the birthplace and abode of high culture in the fifth and sixth centuries . . . but also of having made strenous efforts in the seventh and up to the tenth century to spread her learning among the German and Romance peoples, thus forming the actual fountain of our present continental civilisation.
- Heinrich Zimmer, Professor of Celtic and Sanskrit, Member of the Prussian Academy of Sciences
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Default Re: Christians and Pagans Agree, Wicca Emerging as America's Third Religion

I was starting to think i was the only one that didn't like Wicca. My girl has a friend who is wiccan and ive known afew myself. Not a religion i really care for. I was raised by a Greek Orthodox Father and a Baptist mother. So i had an odd mixed Christian upbring. Although i no longer see myself as a Christian, i would never turn to Wicca for my spiritual answers, nor would i like to see my girl do the same.
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Old Monday, June 27th, 2005
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Default Re: Christians and Pagans Agree, Wicca Emerging as America's Third Religion

I never thought I'd say this, but recently I have come into contact with a decent Wiccan. How about that!
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--Charles Peguy

"Love for a man's own nation must not make a man into a wild animal, which tears down and provokes revenge; it must make him more noble, so that he can gain the respect and love of other nations for his nation. Therefore love toward your own nation is not contradictory to love for the whole of mankind; they complement each other. All of the nations are children of God."
--Cardinal Alojzije Stepinac, 1938
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Old Monday, June 27th, 2005
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Default Re: Christians and Pagans Agree, Wicca Emerging as America's Third Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Perun
I never thought I'd say this, but recently I have come into contact with a decent Wiccan. How about that!
Decent? Perhaps.
Sane? Hmmm....

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The traditions of the Irish people are the oldest of any race in Europe north and west of the Alps, and they themselves are the longest settled on their own soil
- Edmund Curtis (A History of Ireland: From Earliest Times to 1922)

The Irish are one of the most ancient nations that I know of at this end of the world, and are from as mighty a race as the world ever brought forth.
For it is certain that Ireland hath had the use of letters very anciently and long before England; that they had letters anciently is nothing doubtful, for the Saxons of England are said to have their letters and learning, and learned men, from the Irish.
- Edmund Spenser (writer, and British Government Official in Ireland, AD 1596).

The renaissance began in Ireland seven hundred years before it was known in Italy. And Armagh, the ecclesiastical capital of Ireland, was at one time the metropolis of civilisation.
- Arsene Darmesteter, Professor of Old French and Literature

Ireland can indeed lay claim to a great past; she can not only boast of having been the birthplace and abode of high culture in the fifth and sixth centuries . . . but also of having made strenous efforts in the seventh and up to the tenth century to spread her learning among the German and Romance peoples, thus forming the actual fountain of our present continental civilisation.
- Heinrich Zimmer, Professor of Celtic and Sanskrit, Member of the Prussian Academy of Sciences
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Old Monday, June 27th, 2005
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Default Re: Christians and Pagans Agree, Wicca Emerging as America's Third Religion

Well you can read for yourself my debate with this Wiccan, Ravenwillow, at Catholic Community:
http://www.catholic-forum.com/forums...ead.php?t=1806

When I stated that a large part of neo-paganism involves presenting a false history, he replies:

*nods* Absolutely. Many of us are as guilty of reconstructionist history (False reconstructionist history) as many other groups are.The ones you are speaking to are most likely those who feel some necessity to 'justify' their faith. I'm an armchair historian, so I like to find the truth behind things.





And the real big question of whether or not Wicca is an "ancient" faith as many try to claim:
[b]
We do not believe that Wicca is 'descended' from these older faiths, any more than Catholicism is 'descended' from Judaism. The two are seperate religions, formed on the same base. So it is with Wicca and the older faiths.


We acknowledge that 'Wicca' is a new faith, no more than 50-70 years old, but the tenants and beliefs that we follow hail back to a much older time. Most believe to the root beliefs of ancient man as depicted on the walls of certain paleothic caves.

And I love this one :

Unfortunately, our faith also has the rather annoying trait of being a 'rebellion' for many kids, who put on our symbol and dance around calling themselves Witches. Which is just as offensive to those of us who are serious about our faith as someone slappin' on a habit and callin' themselves a nun would be without any of the pre-requisite vows or training. (There is a training period right? See, now I'm making assumptions)

So yes, this Wiccan is honest and reasonable. He seems to like to try to debate me on historical issues, but it's on a friendly basis.
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--Charles Peguy

"Love for a man's own nation must not make a man into a wild animal, which tears down and provokes revenge; it must make him more noble, so that he can gain the respect and love of other nations for his nation. Therefore love toward your own nation is not contradictory to love for the whole of mankind; they complement each other. All of the nations are children of God."
--Cardinal Alojzije Stepinac, 1938

Last edited by Perun; Monday, June 27th, 2005 at 18:36.
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