Burzum

[Gottslav]

Originally Posted by Strengthandhonour

Burzum being world view..
I don't know if that is necesarily a good thing. A lot of this so called " burzum" fans are quite silly. They claim to be all philosophical because they read the vargsmal and maybe one philosophy book by Nietzsche. One of the reasons I distanced myself from the metal scene so much is the fact that so many metalheads are pretentious.

Not necessarily a good thing, of course. One man's gain is another man's loss...
As years come by we all realise music is not all-important, still in the world of metal you can hardly become more pretentious than a progressive-metal fan, I assure you. And particularly one of the main reasons why I choose Burzum or other stripped-down honest, maybe even primitive metal over any of those "great skilled musicians" out there.

[ares]

In Vargsmål, a lot of stupid and ignorant things were written along with wisdom and common sense. Today I think that the man may have matured a bit. Apart from his interest in computing, he's planning to find a place to retire to in the countryside, for when the crash "comes".

I got all this from his website.

[Gottslav]

Originally Posted by Strengthandhonour

One of the reasons I distanced myself from the metal scene so much is the fact that so many metalheads are pretentious.

Oh, and by the way, out of a few people I personally know who really dig Burzum, only a handful are metal fans, others are into Experimental scene, post rock, kraut, dark ambient, neoclassical and other leftfield activities. That in itself is telling something about this band, one of the most influential in independent scene. Burzum transcends metal, for sure. Not to mention that I've not listened to metal for ten years straight, mainly focusing on electronic experimental, folk, post rock, drone, noise, post-industrial and other genres, before rediscovering it and feeling really good for it.

[Freebooter]

You seem to be mistaken, Gottslav. My quarrel with Burzum was never based on their political or ideological affiliations or stances. That's another matter, as I pointed out earlier. As a result, their worldview is irrelevant to me. My quarrel was with the application of the term "musical genius" to Varg, and it wasn't until you decided to go after Opeth's music that this discussion turned into a pissing contest. Not that I have a problem with that; I enjoy pissing contests and have no reservations about involving myself in them when I see fit.

But the bottom line is that Opeth is just a band, as you said. Åkerfeldt is just a musician and a regular man outside of the music world. He's neither a political figure nor a founder of any ideologies and he has no intention of being any such thing, unlike Varg. Though, you wouldn't think it to read your comments; you keep pretending that Opeth is trying to be something more than a band... that they're trying to be "intellectual" or that they have any desire to hold "worldviews". If that's how some Opeth fans have managed to skew the truth, then that's something you can take up with them.

The truth is that it is far from pretentious to state what is simply true: that Varg is not a musical genius. I can sit quite happily knowing you think Opeth blows the big one because, as I said, music is a matter of subjectivity (that doesn't mean I'm not willing to argue against your remarks about Mikael's writing, use of guitar, etc.). Who can be a considered a musical genius, however, isn't. Not in my book.

With that said, I'm almost reluctant to even pay much attention to what you say. It seems you were cut deep by what I said about Varg and, by extension, Burzum, which is why you decided to go off on a tangent rant about Opeth. I never even mentioned Opeth, only Mikael Åkerfeldt as a musical genius.

Contrary to what you imply, though, I'm not all that pretentious, and I think you have it wrong in marking me a "progressive metal" fan. I love Opeth and a handful of others, but all things considered, I'm not even a big prog. metal fan (or a big metal fan, for that matter).

[Gottslav]

@Freebooter: You're entitled to your own opinion about Burzum and Opeth, as I'm entitled to mine. It's perfectly fine with me, really. As I said earlier, Varg's artistic output far exceeds his musical abilities, which were never in issue in his genre to begin with (but even at that we can discuss his stamina at playing drums as flawlessly as he did at one take on his rather lengthy pieces). And btw, I'm really cautious with using ambigous terms such as "musical genius" and never proposed to call that him. Period.

[Lutiferre]

Originally Posted by Strengthandhonour

Burzum being world view..
I don't know if that is necesarily a good thing. A lot of this so called " burzum" fans are quite silly. They claim to be all philosophical because they read the vargsmal and maybe one philosophy book by Nietzsche. One of the reasons I distanced myself from the metal scene so much is the fact that so many metalheads are pretentious.
All they do is try to appear that they are more than they are and that music is everything. Varg was a confused angry kid who made music and became famous for it while he got showered in the shroud of controversy. Whoever considers Varg to be an intelectual, should def. reconsider. As an academic student, I have read some fo varg's writings and they are total rubbish based completely on his own ideas and stereotypes. I saw him going as far as insulting Italians and Greeks for not having working toilets(god knows we use the bathroom outside) and even insulting the Danish. Good thing I grew up and learned that music isn't everything in life, specially metal.

You're right about Burzum, and Varg. Varg is a retarded, childish murderer, with no talent, who wrote a stupid book with a bunch of misinformation (among other things) about Scandinavia. No deep thoughts, obviously no background studies, and no insight - no particular knowledge, either. Simply summarized, bullshit that he made up. People like him only serve to damage the outside view of Scandinavia, but luckily there are few of his type.

[Gottslav]

Originally Posted by Lutiferre

You're right about Burzum, and Varg. Varg is a retarded, childish murderer, with no talent, who wrote a stupid book with a bunch of misinformation (among other things) about Scandinavia. No deep thoughts, obviously no background studies, and no insight - no particular knowledge, either.

Unstudied mostly, but heartfelt, which in certain cases is more important. Anyway, we're not exactly discussing his book here. There's no denying he'd done wrong in the past, for which he serves his sentence.
Childish? Perhaps. But should be taken into the broader context of his Romanticist worldview. No talent? Hardly. He's got it in quantity, never dreamt of by certain crowdist bands, which are nothing but walking smart jokes themselves.

He didn't damage the outside view of Scandinavia in my eyes or anyone else's I personally know. On the contrary, it is bloody liberals, feminists and pro-oneworlders who damage it immensely.

[Lutiferre]

Originally Posted by Gottslav

Unstudied mostly, but heartfelt, which in certain cases is more important. Anyway, we're not exactly discussing his book here. There's no denying he'd done wrong in the past, for which he serves his sentence.
Childish? Perhaps. But should be taken into the broader context of his Romanticist worldview. No talent? Hardly. He's got it in quantity, never dreamt of by certain crowdist bands, which are nothing but walking smart jokes themselves.

When you write large quantities of largely unfounded claims and untruths, and then release them to the public deliberately in the belief you have new insight - thats very childish.

Originally Posted by Gottslav

He didn't damage the outside view of Scandinavia in my eyes or anyone else's I personally know. On the contrary, it is bloody liberals, feminists and pro-oneworlders who damage it immensely.

To be honest, I'd prefer people that are politically liberals over talentless black metal-artists who somehow gain popularity by murdering people, and showing extreme disrespect by burning churches. Depending on, of course, the definition of "liberals".

[Leland Gaunt]

talentless black metal-artists

Im sorry, Varg is not by any means talentless. You can disrespect him for some of his deeds but you can't disrespect him for his music. Burzum is one of the most influental projects in history of music, like it or not. For 15 years of it's existance it already has 8 tribute albums - which iseven more that Iron maiden and Black Sabbath taken together. This alone speak volumes about Burzum's impact in the music world.
You should not forget his ambient stuff which desevres a honourary mention too.

[Marcus Marulus]

As I can see, the hefty burzumological debate is still going on.

[Strengthandhonour]

Originally Posted by Thief of always

Im sorry, Varg is not by any means talentless. You can disrespect him for some of his deeds but you can't disrespect him for his music. Burzum is one of the most influental projects in history of music, like it or not. For 15 years of it's existance it already has 8 tribute albums - which iseven more that Iron maiden and Black Sabbath taken together. This alone speak volumes about Burzum's impact in the music world.
You should not forget his ambient stuff which desevres a honourary mention too.

I think calling Burzum one of the most influential projects in the history of music is quite far fetched. Sure, Burzum has inspired a ton of bands but have you heard most of them? they are awful. I like black metal, I have a nice little collection of it but there is so many bands that sound the same and sometimes they try to see who has the worst studio quality.
Burzum has had an impact on the music world but it's not as large as you make it sound. Go out and ask normal people if they know who Burzum is. As far as the tributes go, have you seen most of them? they are made by underground record labels in Eastern Europe featuring bands made out of politically confused Eastern Europeans who wish they were Scandinavian.

[Leland Gaunt]

Go out and ask normal people if they know who Burzum is.

Most of normal people are quite retarded. They use MTV as a scale for their music taste. There are still people out there who never heard of Steve Harris or Bruce Dickinson leave alone Varg.

As far as the tributes go, have you seen most of them?

they are made by underground record labels

So what? Do you want them to sell merchandise puppets and masks like guys from Kiss do?

[Strengthandhonour]

Originally Posted by Thief of always

Most of normal people are quite retarded. They use MTV as a scale for their music taste. There are still people out there who never heard of Steve Harris or Bruce Dickinson leave alone Varg.





So what? Do you want them to sell merchandise puppets and masks like guys from Kiss do?

No. I was trying to prove to you, that the band Burzum is not as big as you make it sound. Plus, Black Metal is going down that path to begin with. Their theatrics attract a specific crowd that is slowly becoming more commercial. I was trying to prove to you, that the people that listen to Burzum are a very select crowd usually with national socialist leanings.

[Leland Gaunt]

Originally Posted by Strengthandhonour

No. I was trying to prove to you, that the band Burzum is not as big as you make it sound. Plus, Black Metal is going down that path to begin with. Their theatrics attract a specific crowd that is slowly becoming more commercial. I was trying to prove to you, that the people that listen to Burzum are a very select crowd usually with national socialist leanings.

Dunno. I listen mostly ambient stuff made by Varg. I don't care for black metal, Im mostly ambient fan.

[Strengthandhonour]

I do think Varg's ambient stuff is more musically powerful than his earlier works.