freedom and political structures

[Waarnemer]

i wonder what the members opinion is about freedom and the political structures that should come with it. Is the democratic system we enjoy one of freedom and human rights or is it used as hypocritical tool to give us a falls feeling of independent freedom? Do we live in a disguised governmental structure of absolute authority?

[Errigal]

The answer must be very different for different countries. I myself think the most important freedom comes from knowing that you can trust the other people in your community. If you feel that your home may be taken from you, or burnt down, or that the money in your bank account can just dissappear, you are not really free even if you have elections.

If you have a community to stand behind you, other groups or the government will hesitate to attack you because of the consequences. That gives people real freedom. This falls apart when your nation or community is willing to abandon you to an outside power or sacrifice you for another group's goal.

Having confidence in your local community gives you freedom from fear and can exist in both dictatorships and democracies. I much prefer democracies myself but they can be vulnerable selfish groups from inside and outside a nation.

[Waarnemer]

some more opinions?

[NatVox]

I was born in a dicatorship country and though I was still too young when General Franco died, the years that followed his death which are known to Spanish History as The Transition [to democracy] I lived them intensively.

Even when I speak to my parents today, who never sympathised with Franco's regime, they agree in that they felt more free then than they do today.

Represion under Franco was delivered by police. Today it is delivered through courts with strange and often ambiguous laws.

Under Franco, the media was controlled directly by the state. Now it is controlled by one or two big groups which are part of the system. Before you get a legal trial, you are likely to get a media trial and by the time you arrive to court you know that you are sentenced already.

An average person would walk alone at any time during the night, on any area knowing that the worse that could happen to him was that the police stopped him to enquire what he was doing on the street so late, and perhaps being unlucky that the police would not be all that polite.

It happened to me. I was taken from an ear to a police station with two other friends of my age (12, 13, 14 y/o) when the police stopped us at 3 am on one night. They were pretty harsh and tried to scare us, and they retained us there until our families came for us. They phoned my parents, I knew my father was abroad so it was only my mother. They asked her, gently if her son was at home. She said of course, it's 4 am, he is sleeping. Then they asked her to make sure that I was sleeping.. of course I wasn't, that room at the police station was cold and scary! The same for my other two friends.

They were rude to us (they were very polite to our mothers when they arrived) and they harassed us with harsh and scary words and slapped us on our heads several times. That, today, would be a reason to denounce them for physical abuses. So yes, I would have been more free today.

Today I would have been able to denounce them for abuses, yet they were teaching me a lesson. Probably they wouldn't have bothered with detaining me at 12 y/o for walking on the streets at night.. but they were protecting us from whatever could have happened to us.

This is only a part of one example out of many others that I'll use against the farce of democratic freedom.

Freedom should not be exptected to be granted. Freedom must be conquered. And when you have to conquer freedom, you know that it has a price and you learn to appreciate freedom to its full extent.

And when you put your freedom at risk, it is for a worth cause.

[NatVox]

As we speak..

Originally Posted by Salaün

Pig soup off menu for Paris homeless


The Conseil d’Etat, France’s highest authority on administrative law, has banned an organisation called Solidarité des Français from distributing its soup containing pig ears, feet and tails to the capital’s rough sleepers.

On Friday night, the court announced that it had upheld an earlier decision by the Paris police chief to shut down the soup kitchen, which has been accused of discriminating against Muslims and Jews, whose religions forbid the consumption of pork.

French court rules pork soup kitchen not racist

[Aptrgangr]

Originally Posted by Waarnemer

i wonder what the members opinion is about freedom and the political structures that should come with it.

In fact we have less freedom due to this current political structures than we could have.
The representative democracy we have here in all western democtacies in fact does not represent he people, it represents parties and lobby groups. People going to vote every x years surely can choose one of the partie listed on the ballot paper, but they have no influence on what this party is doing next. FRG's (Federal Republic of Germany) vice-chancellor Müntefering, leader of the SPD (Social Democrats) once said to reporters it was "unfair" to remind him to the promises he made before the elections. Joining a party in order to influence policy also does not make sense since all parties have to follow certain laws never having granted by the people, but by politicans following the ruling ideology = liberal democracy. In FRG parties have to accept the rules and laws according to the so called Grundgesetz "Basic Law" which never has been granted by the German people. All constitutions in western democracy purposefully ignore people's wishes in order to create a new society, the liberal multicultural society.

Originally Posted by Waarnemer

Is the democratic system we enjoy one of freedom and human rights or is it used as hypocritical tool to give us a falls feeling of independent freedom?

The democratic order promises "checks and balances", meaning the forces are independent and controlled. A closer look shows e.g judges of all courts are as independent from their governments as lackey from their masters. Who appoints the judges? Who is their supervisor? When all is this free and independent, why is there control of media then? I am aware, it is said media is free, but just try to introduce a dissident paper somewhere in Europe that criticizes the ruling order a such and not just in parts. Berlin's Police vice commander had to resign over the simple statement foreign people are committing much more crimes than indigenous people.
Human rights: Settling foreign ethnicities in an already settled area, suppressing these indigenous people, is called "ethnic cleansing". Serious ethnic cleaning taks place here in Europe - of course the politicans are responsible for that subscribed to UN laws outlawing any ethnic cleansing an dnever would describe this phenomenon as such.

Originally Posted by Waarnemer

Do we live in a disguised governmental structure of absolute authority?

We do not see absolute authority like we see it in absolutely totalitarian states, but it developes in this direction. There are e.g. well known Muslim terrorists living all over Europe. Instead of deporting them there are more and more "anti-terror" laws. In fact someone planning a suicide attck is not interested in the fact there are biometric data saved at Police computers or not. But Police easilier can control their own people, where they meet and what they buy.

[Antikrist]

The Indo-European peoples have been enslaved by the mass media, not necessarily by democracy itself. For example, Sweden was a
quite nice nation before the multiculturalism was established. The State practised negative eugenics, had a very strong defence, welfare and we also had a research institution for racial biology. We had politician and leaders, which still, at least to a certain level, wanted to represent the true interests of the Swedish people. The relationship between the State and its people must be mutual. That’s the thing. A homogenous people have the ability to create prosperous societies – almost regardless of political system. But some are, of course, more effective and advantageous. Democracy is, on the other hand, an ineffective system, non-authoritarian, expensive and it also disrupt the people. It’s the system, where the majority always oppresses the minority. Therefore, I’m an Anti-Democrat. But the modern society is not a democracy, at least not here in Sweden.

[Strengthandhonour]

There is no such thing as absolute freedom I believe. Democracy, like just about everything has its flaws and negative aspects. I believe in rights such as the right to free speech, most countries claim to have it but when we think about it we don't have that at all.
Democracy limits our freedom greatly. We are given an illusion that we can decide and make differences. That is not always very true. Give the people a few voting rights and they think they are free. Politicians are still free to do whatever they want with the people. My great grandparents always shared great stories of the fascist times in Italy.
My family comes from very small and humble towns for the most part. My grandfather always spoke of the times of il duce very positively. He told me that when il duce was around that people could wonder the streets in peace without fear of being assaulted or hurt. My great grandmother was a single woman since my great grandfather died early on. She always claimed she felt very protected and at peace during this time. They claim they never saw any harsh punishment being administered by the police.
Today, take a walk in a big city late at night and you can get a stab by an African immigrant for whatever miserable amount of money you have in your pockets. What do you have left to do? the cops wont do much since they are afraid of being jailed for being racists. You complain, the tides are turned against you and suddenly you were stabbed due to the opressive fascists that run our countries..

[Galician]

I believe that someone can only be free when the ruling regime meets the conditions and ideas that you believe in therefore reaching a mental well being. In this case we would be talking about an unconditional freedom in which you would remain faithfull to that political structure. However most people associate freedom with being given a few priveledges and not with the thought that what you may be doing or is happening is the right thing. That is my opinion. What would you say regarding my opinion?