Integration or Ghettoisation

[Cristoforo]

Lately, I am discussing with various politically-minded friends the pros and cons of integrating immigrants into society instead of letting them concentrate and create Ghettos with results like those we saw in France.

The only difference is that the integration in this case would be radical and total. What do I mean? I mean that immigrants would be subjected to intense re-education programmes aimed at stripping their former traditions/culture/religion and imbue in them, European values and traditions.

Basically it would be a "communist-style" brainwashing programme, something which would make the liberal left scream with horror but which would avoid a lot of future problems in Europe (especially Islamic terrorism). This would be done since the possibility of sending them back to their countries is not a probable solution for the time being.

What are your opinions about this?

I'll make a poll about it too.

[Savage]

No options to vote on for me here...

It is not actual to prepeare any integration for them here, what so ever.

They are all going out, free willing or forced, to where are their own problem, not mine. And for those not able to take a friendly hint, or an order to leave,
I recommend clean and humanistic executions, simple as that.

I do not want them here, their breed, cultures, or genes, neither integrated or ghettofized.

Europe should buy one or two of the corrupt negro states in Africa, and use is as dumps for immigrants/asylumseekers/mulattos/retards usw.

[Youenn]

Initially, ghettoisation and expulsion afterwards.

[Savage]

Of course integration would be the best if they were expected to stay...., but they are certainly not...

But ghettofication is better tactical of several reasons.

As we know, the ghetto they brings with them, it is one of their most significant marks, their collective lack of social organization talent and social responsibility, so even if we offered them the best westend, they would make a ghetto out of it in no time.

The fine thing with ghettos for black and foreghners.

We know where to find them.

The rapes, robberys and murders occures to a larger degree within the ghetto.

Their social and physical pollution remains within a limited area. And when they shall be deported, it is easier to trap them within a ghetto and get them on trucks for the harbour. Also it is easier to remove the tracks of them, by demolishing their whole blocks or quarters.

In Oslo forexample, we have ghettos at Grønland, Tøyen, Grynerløkka, Holmlia, Groruddalen, and Prinsdalen. It is very pleasant to not have those sneaking around the doors where I live.

So my bottom line will be, build temporary ghettos for the blacks and foreighners, that should boost their social problems, and provoke a maixmizing of the crisis to awake even the slowest Norwegian.

Last week I was to the postoffice. Outtside it, a thin and humble norwegian beggar. Inside a fat somalian in an electric wheelchair, that probably cost 20 000 euros, all paid by the norwegian government and taxpayers. This black and piglike creature was very well dressed, and eagerly speaking in an expensive Nokia. Nice watch and golden rings. Poor handicap. But all paid by us. If I did what would be right to to, I tore it out of the nice wheelchair, strippet his white mans clothes, took his Nokia and watch, removed the goldrings, and kicked the naked piece of meat out the door, and into the gutter where it belongs, and gave all "his" properties to poor norwegians. That the poor creature was handicapped would just have made it easier, no mercy of that reason either.

Give me one good reason why somalian handicaps should enjoy our mercy and generousity? No reason that we should carry dead weight?

Mercy and tolerance should be used on such worth it, not on organized parasites from the other side of the globe.

[Alcide]

Most Africans can only do manual jobs due to their weak intelligence, we (european governments) can send them into concentration camps to work for us and without being allowed to get out of it. If I was ultra-capitalist, I would reply that.

btw, we don't have anything to do to make them ghettoized, they make it themselves (did governments oblige them to degrade their area ?)

[Batzec]

Expulsion is the only solution.

Of course integration implies genocide of autochtonous European population: racially (European people turned into mulattoes), culturally (traditions turned into American way of life) and spiritually (christians turned into muslims.)

Our whole heritage of thousands of years ruined in a few decades.

[Agrippa]

I cant vote in this poll neither. For me it depends on the specific immigrants, their numbers and difference to the indigenous population. More immigrants can be integrated if being of a similar kind, less if they are very different - in fact, if they are very different by ethnicity, race and culture, they can't be integrated at all. They could only live there and some of their mixed ancestors might be integrable after some generations...that alone shows that larger numbers of such non-integrable elements are absolutely inacceptable since they would heavily alter the original character of the nation in any way and in a negative way with a very high certainty.

[Menydh]

It didn't work in the past. Spain: morerías (Moorish ghettoes), juderías, calls (Jewish ghettoes). Even a ghetto-like area around Granada, Las Alpujarras.

Eventually all had to be sorted out through decrees of expulsion. Sooner or later they burst from inside out.. or from outside in. Or both. It is a source for and a continuous state of conflict.

Ghettoes, on the other hand, do not have to come implemented by as state. They can (and they do) grow naturally. Many neighbourhoods in European capital cities nowadays are actually ghettoes where immigrant populations have concentrated to keep themselves as cohesive groups.

The only ghetto form implemented that I believe that it would work, would be a ghetto-state, policed by an international force. And that only applies to one particular group.

[Savage]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

Ghettoes, on the other hand, do not have to come implemented by as state. They can (and they do) grow naturally. Many neighbourhoods in European capital cities nowadays are actually ghettoes where immigrant populations have concentrated to keep themselves as cohesive groups.

The only ghetto form implemented that I believe that it would work, would be a ghetto-state, policed by an international force. And that only applies to one particular group.

We should engage EU, UN, USA; the Worldbank and G7 to create replacements for the Eurpean ghettos along a water line from the sea to the hearth of Sahara.

[Susi]

For some reason this thread was "new" in my list... well I'll make a short response.

I think due to things such as chain migration, ghettos form anyways-- well, "ethnic enclaves". Like groups with like. However, it is dangerous as well, as they can cause much trouble if it is not economically successful.

[Galician]

Originally Posted by Agrippa

I cant vote in this poll neither. For me it depends on the specific immigrants, their numbers and difference to the indigenous population. More immigrants can be integrated if being of a similar kind, less if they are very different - in fact, if they are very different by ethnicity, race and culture, they can't be integrated at all. They could only live there and some of their mixed ancestors might be integrable after some generations...that alone shows that larger numbers of such non-integrable elements are absolutely inacceptable since they would heavily alter the original character of the nation in any way and in a negative way with a very high certainty.

I agree completely. Integration is possible with those immigrants of a cultural similarity (although i do not approve of any kind of mass inter-european migrations), but with others such as muslims i do not see it happening. It is hard for them to assimilate the indigenous cultures of Europe so what chance is there of them integrating? None in my view.

As for the Ghettoisation i think that ghettos under the control of an armed force should be built or simply refurbishing existing ones into these. Measures to control the birth rate in them and pro-natalistic measures to increase the indigenous population should be applied also so there will be no need for immigration.