Which kind of Nationalism do you favour the most?

[Faísca]

In order to assist you in your choice, here are some brief descriptions:

Civic nationalism (also civil nationalism) is the form of nationalism in which the state derives political legitimacy from the active participation of its citizenry, the "will of the people"; "political representation". This theory was first developed by Jean-Jacques Rousseau and put down in various writings, particularly On the Social Contract.

Civic nationalism lies within the traditions of rationalism and liberalism. It is the theory behind representative democracies such as the United States and France.

Ethnic nationalism is the form of nationalism in which the state derives political legitimacy from historical cultural or hereditary groupings (ethnicities); the underlying assumption is that ethnicities should be politically distinct. This was developed by Johann Gottfried von Herder, who introduced the concept of the Volk.

Romantic nationalism (also organic nationalism, identity nationalism and opposed to Enlightenment ) is the form of ethnic nationalism in which the state derives political legitimacy as a natural ("organic") consequence of race; in the spirit of Romanticismrationalism. Romantic nationalism relies upon the existence of a historical ethnic culture which meets the Romantic Ideal; folklore developed as a Romantic nationalist concept.

Cultural nationalism is a form of nationalism where only culture and not any hereditary features (such as skin pigmentation) becomes the central aspect of what constitues the nation. The best example for cultural nationalists are the Chinese who consider their nation to be based on culture. Race is being played down by these nationalists as they consider Manchus and other national minorities as part of the Chinese nation. The Qing dynasty's willingness to adapt to Chinese customs shows the supremacy of the mainstream Chinese culture. Many Chinese on Taiwan consider themselves Chinese nationalists because of their cultural background but they reject the Chinese Communist government.

State nationalism is a variant on civic nationalism, very often combined with ethnic nationalism. The nationalistic feelings are that strong that they often get priority over the universal rights and liberties. The success of the state often contrasts and conflicts with the principles of a democratic society. The maintenance of the national state is a superior argument, as if it brings better government on its own. Typical examples are Nazism, but also the contemporary Turkish nationalism, and in a lesser form the right-wing Franquism in Spain, and the 'Jacobin' attitude towards the unitary and centralist French state, as well as Belgian nationalism, fiercely opposed towards equal rights and more autonomy for the Flemings, and the Basque or Corsican nationalists. Systematically, wherever state nationalism is strong, there are conflicting appeals to both the loyalty of the people, and on territories, as the Turkish nationalism and its brutal repression of Kurdish nationalism, the opposition between strong central governement in Spain and France with Basque, Catalan, and Corsican nationalism.

Religious nationalism is the form of nationalism in which the state derives political legitimacy as a consequence of shared religion. Zionism is an example, though many, if not most, forms of ethnic nationalism are in some ways religious nationalism as well. For example, Irish nationalism is associated with Catholicism; Indian nationalism is associated with Hinduism. In modern India, a contempary form of Hindu nationalism, or Hindutva has been prominent among many followers of the BJP and RSS. In general, religious nationalism is viewed as a form of ethnic nationalism.

Irish nationalist leaders of the last 100 years are Sometimes however religion is more of a marker of a group than the motivation for their nationalism. For example although most Catholic, in the 19th century and especially in the 18th century many nationalistic leaders were Protestant. Irish nationalists are not fighting for theological distinctions like transubstantiation, the status of the Virgin Mary, or the primacy of the Pope. Rather they are fighting for an ideology that identifies the geographical island of Ireland with a particular view of Irish culture, which for some nationalists does include Catholicism but has as a more dominant element other elements of culture. For many nations that had to struggle against the consequences of the imperialism of another nation, nationalism was linked to the pursuit of an ideal of freedom.

Banal nationalism is a concept put forward by Michael Billig (Prof. Social sciences, University of Loughborough) whereby the everyday, less visible forms of nationalism exist, that remind and shape the minds of the nations on a day to day basis.

[Perun]

Hmmmn.....actually those forms of nationalism are very interwined really. Trying to seperate them into distinct categories can lead to trouble. For example, Anthony D Smith noted that religious nationalism often complements ethnic nationalism, for religious passions are what drive people to fight and die for their ethnic group.

Although I agree with many of elements of each, I guess Romantic nationalism is closest to my ideal.

[Ederico]

Apart from Perun's well-sensed observation relating to the intertwined nature of the various forms (nit-picking huh?), I feel that what describes me best is Romantic Nationalism and given certain tendencies State Nationalism, although the latter must be combined to the former otherwise it loses its validity in my view.

[Antiquarian]

Originally Posted by Johannes

Cultural nationalism is a form of nationalism where only culture and not any hereditary features (such as skin pigmentation) becomes the central aspect of what constitues the nation. The best example for cultural nationalists are the Chinese who consider their nation to be based on culture. Race is being played down by these nationalists as they consider Manchus and other national minorities as part of the Chinese nation. The Qing dynasty's willingness to adapt to Chinese customs shows the supremacy of the mainstream Chinese culture. Many Chinese on Taiwan consider themselves Chinese nationalists because of their cultural background but they reject the Chinese Communist government.

Cultural nationalism is the same as ethnic nationalism, except where its attempting to assimilate another nation for the good of their own state. And the Taiwanese are ethnic Chinese who reached Taiwan from the mainland.

[Perun]

There are so many ways to divide nationalism, there is no one form of nationalism. Not only does this correspond to national differences but even within these national differences there are ideological differences. Theres just so much complexity to the issue at hand.

[Suoma-Tribal Hun]

Ethnic Nationalism

[Antiquarian]

Originally Posted by Perun

There are so many ways to divide nationalism, there is no one form of nationalism. Not only does this correspond to national differences but even within these national differences there are ideological differences. Theres just so much complexity to the issue at hand.

Yes, but cultural nationalism is the most confusing.

And banal nationalism isnt a political ideal, its a term for how everyone feels part of a group through the nature of that group, which is present and gives everyone a national identity, even if someone claims to be anti-nationalist.

[Perun]

Originally Posted by Antiquarian

Yes, but cultural nationalism is the most confusing.

Well not if you divide nationalism mainly along political vs. cultural lines. But within those two main contexts there are several further divisions.

I'll try quoting Smith on this issue, for he deals with this quite a bit in his works.

[Theobald]

I consider myself as Romantic Nationalist But also very near to Ethnic and Cultural definitions...

[Antiquarian]

Originally Posted by Perun

Well not if you divide nationalism mainly along political vs. cultural lines. But within those two main contexts there are several further divisions.

In the listed definitions, this would be a division between ethnic nationalism and state nationalism, cultural nationalism is just the overlap that can exist between the two others, under certain circumstances.

[NatVox]

This post should have multiple choices.

[Arawn]

And the Taiwanese are ethnic Chinese who reached Taiwan from the mainland.

There are indignious Taiwanese too, who are not 'ethnic Chinese' (is there even such a thing?).

Anyways, i'll have to agree with the Spanish mountain.

[Antiquarian]

Originally Posted by Arawn

There are indignious Taiwanese too, who are not 'ethnic Chinese' (is there even such a thing?).

But the indigenous Taiwanese dont identify themselves as Chinese. What happened to them was like wht happened to the indigenous people in Australia, Tasmania and parts of the Americas, but of course we wont hear about that because the Chinese arent white.

Anyways, i'll have to agree with the Spanish mountain.

So will I.

[Left-nationalist]

I support a nationalism against the bourgeois class. I'm against the nation-states, they are creations of the wellknown French revolution. Anyone that supports the nation-states like they are today, he/she supports capitalism and anti-europeanism (real europeanism), he/she is a slave of the West (the beast that we have to destroy). Nationalism for me also means white unity, not white's demarcation.

[Zrinski]

Europe is the West you .....

[Arawn]

And the modern Nation-State was born with the treaty of Westphalia, not the French Revolution.

Though i think he's coming from a Russian-Commie centric East/West dichotomy, where 'west' = Capitalism.

[Amphi]

Smash Nationalism!

[Awar]

Yeah, it is smashing, isn't it