Which kind of Nationalism do you favour the most?

[Milesian]

Originally Posted by Português

Your bias against fellow europeans is even more execrable then the one expressed by the irishman.

You mean me, right? "Milesian" is at least as easy to type as "irishman", you know

What bias, anyway?
If tens of thousands of Chinese immigrants flood my country and take jobs from the native people, do I have a right to be upset?

Does it make any difference if they are Japanese? Indian? Turkish? Polish? German? Spanish? Danish? Are the last four groups ok because they fit in with some definition of "White" or "European"? Are you going to tell the 500 Irish Ferries workers that it's ok they lost their jobs due to cheap immigrant labour because white Europeans got their jobs? Do you want to tell their families too? What about the people in the Gaeltacht struggling to keep the Irish language alive while the country is being swamped by so many "fellow Europeans" that they are proposing road signs now to be in another European language as opposed to the native Irish language? We shouldn't be concerned about any of this?

For the record, I don't have a bias against any of those nationalities I just mentioned, including the non-European ones.

You should form a club,

Yes, a club for realists & the certified sane. Good idea.
You won't be joining, I assume, as you will still be fantasising over your European Imperium?

but you should have to be carefull, since you are from different europena stock and something bad could happen as history tell us when two blind nationalists meet.

There seems to exist only extremes in your mind.

1) On the one hand, we can either all give up our ethnic identities to join your fantastic Imperium where we can all pretend to be the same "Europeans"
We'll also pretend we understand each others languages, customs, like each others food, understand each other's history, etc

2) Or.....we are all maniacal chauvinists who hate every nationality that isn't our own and would as soon as kill a foreigner as look at them

I suppose the reality has thus escaped you :- that we are proud of our people, land, history, and ethnic identities. We desire to preserve them as something precious. We also maintain friendly relations with neighbouring peoples and co-operate, trade, etc with them
I cannot speak for you, but this scenario seems much more sane and healthy to me.

I greatly admire some other European cultures. It doesn't mean I want to give up my own ethnic identity, ask them to give up theirs, and pretend we are now the same people in some artifical, continent-wide empire. That's utter madness.

I hope that if you do not agree with me now, then you eventually come round to that view.

No hard feelings

[Ederico]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

I'm looking forward to read Ederico's answer to this. Last time I checked, Norman Lowell was far from a Maltese Nationalist and close to Anglo-servant White Nutionalist. Has he repented since?

I answer "no". His "nationalism" revolves on anti-immigrationist expressions whom in their modes are laughable at best and objectionable in general. Not only are they objectionable, they are also damaging for people who can actually oppose immigration and be more serious about. In relation to the latter people, he is now on a campaign to purge his movement of "moderates", I believe the latter are leaving him by themselves and he needs no purging to do. Himself and his ideas are actually good ammunition to attack right-wing thought and nationalist thought by those promoting immigration and the distortion of our national identity and promotion of social liberalism. Many are guilty by inexistant association with Norman Lowell. Moreover the man gloats that "they" are the only ones representing the voice of the people, that is what one would term "delusion". Moreover, it is a certain fact that all those opposing immigration, are not with Norman Lowell, far, very far from it.

Moreover, he opposes the immigration of non-Europeans exclusively and not of other Europeans, or at least I have not seen any such opposition from him.

He calls nationalism petty to say the least, and considers Europe as our Patria. Sure, I share a lot with Bulgarians, Russians and Englishman (this is not an offence, I'm giving examples), note the sarcasm. Nationalists in the proper sense, are petty according to him. Moreover in the Maltese context, someone that hates rabidly our language, much of our folklore and traditions, has an anti-Semitic obsession in a country where Jews are practically inexistant, favoured integration with the United Kingdom, favoured EU accession, and hates the Catholic Faith in the most rabid and disgusting of manners is far from Maltese.

One should take criticism on the latter, but the man goes far off from criticism in relation to pratically anything. The man in general, is as far off from traditional Maltese nationalism as possible.(and if it is not traditional, it is drivel not nationalism). I do not believe someone like Portugues (excuse the lack of special characters) will teach what Maltese Nationalism is about.

By the way, for those who want to get an idea of what I am talking about, just head to www.imperium-europa.org.

[M.R.]

Ethnic nationalism.

[Sergius]

this is a good thread. new members should be directed towards it, so we won't need to say no to each and every wn-type that turns up.

[NatVox]

Either that or to compile a full text explaining the rejection of white nationalism. Arguing about it everytime someone claims for wn is not orderly and multiplicates the effort.

[Erasmus]

I voted other. Federative Nationalism.

[Rodozashtitnik]

It's difficult to specify, but maybe a religious nationalism.

[Caesar Princeps]

Romantic Nationalism

Originally Posted by Faísca

Correction, actually it did, Trotsky for instance used the slogan: For a Soviet United States of Europe -- as early as 1923. Good reference, uh?

Trotsky was not our civilization.

Anyway An European Bloc is not always the end of Nations.
For example, Habsburgic Empire could stand for centuries, while the nations inside it maintained their identities. It is needed to distinguish among modern technocratic multiculturalist masonic Paneuropeism and a traditional ecumenic organic empire.

[tankistabg]

etnic nationalism. The etnicity is above all.

Ethnic Nationalism.

[Marulus]

A combination of ethnic and civic nationalism.

[I-Bleed-Russian]

State Nationalism.

I'm proud to be what I am ethnically, but I understand the troubles in today's world one may have of keeping that in tact in an entire nation and history teaches us to use the best individuals available regardless of their ethnicity.

That being said if I continued to live in Canada I would support a strict Canadian structure, none of this racial equality bullshit, if you want to live in Canada you will abide by the laws of Canada and nothing else and if you are called to serve Canada in the army you damn well better report.

That being said I do not intend to keep living in Canada, and if a government came to pass that imposed such a system I would leave, sooner, I mean I intend to leave within a decade but that's a stretch, 5 years is really all I need, not even, 3 would be enough but 4 would be a safety measure.

Canada is extremely liberal, our current minority conservative government is only existent because there's a lot of pissed off people at the liberals, but then again most of the country like the U.S. is jam packed with idiots.

What I'm getting at is Canada is an example of a pussy nation, like fucking Norway, Switzerland, now there's a country they flip everyone off and live by their own rules, they got into the U.N. in what, 99? They just did that for show but they're extremely independent, that's what every nation should be, Russia is where I'm headed and I like the way they have it setup right now.

[NatVox]

Originally Posted by I-Bleed-Russian

State Nationalism.

I'm proud to be what I am ethnically, but I understand the troubles in today's world one may have of keeping that in tact in an entire nation and history teaches us to use the best individuals available regardless of their ethnicity.

Nation is actually an ethnic concept. The problem with State Patriotism (that's a more correct name than State Nationalism; sorry, I didn't make this poll) is that it can destroy the very fabric of the nation.

That's what's happened with England/Britain, and it is what's happening with Russia. I'm sure that you don't want to see Russia overpopulated with "Russian" Tatars and others.

However I may agree in that one must search for the best equilibrium between nation and state, the nation must always be the absolute priority.

[Marulus]

Some European countries have actually come to a point in which being patriotic in the traditional state-patriotic sense of word, equals to treason of the nation. Because many states became anti-nationalistic constructs.

Rallying around the flag? Not unconditionally, but only in right situations and contexts and if the cause is a right one.

Flag waving isn't necessarily connected with nationalism.

[vackie]

[edit by Mynydd: who asked you, American?]

[Berrocscir]

My heart tells me ethnic nationalism (ethnicity being a major factor in actually defining a nation) But my head tells me civic nationalism - particularly for England where mass immigration means that the best hope for a cohesive, relatively harmonious society is to 'mainstream' civic nationalism. Other cultures must assimilate to the indiginous population's culture, language etc.