America and Europeans

[Dr. Solar Wolff]

You guys are discussing two issues.

1. Race in America: Americans know what they mean by "White". To Europeans, this sounds silly. As far as Europe is concerned, why is this an issue?

2. American involvement and influence in Europe. This is a HUGE ISSUE!!! And it is a huge issue for you as well as for me. Europeans say Americans have a "mentality". They seem to fix themselves on American bad manners, lack of linguistic skills, ethnocentricism, and poor education. OK, you have a point, but I think the real issue is the influence and pressue being exerted on European governments and economy by American government/finance. Of course Europe is not alone as a target but my best chance (being completely selfish) of halting a wrong American foreign policy is with Europe.

Look what has happened regarding the war in Iraq. Europe stood up and said NO. Even countries which were pressured into participation in that war had popular opinion against it. Now, even Americans say it was a waste of time at over 50%. Eventually, this external/internal pressure will turn the tide but this "tide" should have been turned 10 years ago when the USA entered the Balkans. Do any of you think Bill Clinton or any American for that matter understood or could understand the Balkan conflict and/or the history of the Balkans from the perspective of the people involved? This is equally true for Iraq. So, America is not in Iraq for Iraq and if America is enforcing its will beyond its borders, other countries should be asking hard questions as to why.

[Perun]

Originally Posted by Strengthandhonour

most "European Americans" dont even consider themselves European, they just consider themselves "White". It seems that the only Americans that seem to share a close tie to European culture are the Americans of recent immigrants, besides for that, most Americans dont really see much of a tie to Europe from what I know.

This is true. I think European-Americans need to reconnect with their roots and build a greater understanding of European culture. We do see this in specific ethnic diaspora communities, which is certainly good and should be encouraged. It just needs to be expanded to European-Americans in general, without descending into "white nationalism" or whatnot.

[Dr. Solar Wolff]

I really can't speak for Americans "back East", but in California "White" does not mean only WASP. As an immigrant from the Bible Belt once told me, "it is nice that, when you meet someone new, the second question they ask you is not 'where do you go to church'." Nor is it specific to any ethnic group. Some blond Arabs would certainly be considered white while others who are dark would not be considered white.

Our ideal was that when a person came to the USA, they renounced all alliegence to their mother country, learned English, and became loyal to America. This is why so many people of German ancestry fought against Germany in two wars. In recent years and with all the non-white immigration, this ideal is slipping and we have all become hyphenated Americans (Irish-Americans, Anglo-Americans, Italian-Americans, etc.). This new trend may indicate a breakdown in whatever cultural cohesion we had.

Evidently, some of you are really interested in what constitutes American culture. I don't know why this is but I will tell you honestly, without jokes, what it is. American culture is really on two levels. It is shared popular culture, movies, books, television, printed material and our very recent history as country. On the second level, American culture has been called "an opportunity" because of the immigrant outlook. It is a body of shared laws, including the Constitution. It is also a presumed sharing of values and morals. It is this second level of culture which we fight over, internally, all the time. Lately it has taken on the name "culture wars". Recently, with the rise of Christian Fundamentalism, this war has taken a turn toward the irrational or faith-based. Faith based foreign policy is at odds with the more secular and rational policies which the USA had in place for years and may be one cause of the sterotypical American viewpoint as seen by Europeans.